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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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this is course is the para cast with

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gene Steinberg and Chris O'Brien now on

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our recent episode with dr. Richard

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Sauter we had a buzzy buzzy episode we

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have recently then had this episode dr.

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Richard Sauter talking about underground

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alien bases about a certain drug he had

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taken and about the voices he heard now

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I know Chris stands by a lot of what he

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said about his research and I'll respect

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that but one particular problem we had

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with that interview is the fact that we

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have this constant chronic buzzing we

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joked about it you know maybe he's there

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maybe there's some unaccounted for

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interference what I joke about a gene we

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tried my humor fell a little flat with

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the good doctor yes he doesn't

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appreciate well it was 3:30 4:00 in the

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morning at that time we're both getting

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punched drunk or something not from any

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little refreshment but because of the

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late hour you know so he got upset over

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it but we probably have the solution

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it's nothing power normal okay

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it is a cellphone placed too close to

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his computer an old-fashioned cell phone

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sending out too much RF never said throw

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out your cell phone let's get on with

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this

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just think what that cell phone does

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close to your brain right think about

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that noise that you heard on this

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episode okay think about the noise

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ladies and gentlemen now consider the

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impact to your brain of all that

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radiation think of the impact to his

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brain all they radiation forget about

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all the other stuff that's going on the

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ayahuasca doesn't doesn't help either

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but I guess in his case it might and in

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terms of me standing by his research as

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you kind of tactfully put it I really

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respect which it solder for a number of

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reasons the foremost being that he

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really has

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a yeoman's job researching the whole

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underground and underwater based

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scenario I haven't talked with Richard

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in a number of years and I I do realize

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that he's gone through a lot by his his

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activist work and in protesting getting

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arrested you know climbing the fence at

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the missile base and any other

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activities that he's political

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activities he's been involved with and

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you know I do sense that he's been kind

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of he's been kind of on edge lately and

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it was I don't think we really found him

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in his best top form at 3:00 in the

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morning and I don't want people on the

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forums to throw out a number of years of

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very good work that he did in the 90s

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about the underground underwater base

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scenario you just because a person you

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catch them on a bad day that you can't

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throw out all their all their hard work

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and I just wanted to underscore that

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well this is the problem I have with it

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let's not look at the research in the

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book but coming in here and saying he

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heard these voices transmitted to him

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now maybe he's right maybe that's done

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obviously it's scientifically possible

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but it kind of makes your eyes roll a

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little bit when you hear it the first

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time oh this guy says to me that this is

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such and though and all that stuff this

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guy said this to me while I was home in

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bed and you guys think you know that's

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kind of weird isn't it it is weird but

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it is what it is and you know I do you

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know like I said I've known Richard for

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quite a number of years and the story

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always did kind of seem a little strange

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to me for obvious reasons but again I

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think it was some form of validation in

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his own mind whether projected there or

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otherwise that the work that he was

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beginning to under undergo in terms of

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research in the whole subject I think it

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gave him validation that he was doing

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something that needed to be done and I

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think his his book underground bases and

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tunnels were you know what is the

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government trying to hide I think is is

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the preeminent work on

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object M I don't care who you are if you

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have any interest in the subject that is

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really the go-to book and and and that's

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that's in the report you know I really

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don't care what anybody else thinks

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about the man all I know is that he is a

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crack researcher and nobody has done the

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amount of work in that subject that he

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has and I really admire him for that all

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the other stuff is like you know a

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quirky guy I guess as he's getting older

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he's getting quirkier so trouble because

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I am just quirks but then Jim Mosley is

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older than I am and worki Oh Jim has

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been quirky for every day I've known him

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I've known Jim for many many years he's

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always been quirky quirky and

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fascinating but quirky yep comes with

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the territory some people do get driven

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over the edges we both well know and uh

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yeah I just hope that I wish which had

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the best of luck down in the Ecuadorian

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wilds of the Ecuadorian jungles down

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there and I hope that he does find what

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he's looking for but at the same time I

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really do think people need to look at

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the man's body work before they just

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throw that that body of work out with

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the bathwater and also look he got

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people who do stand by him like you do

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like Richard Dolan and everything else

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just remind him keep the cell phone away

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from your head or get a different cell

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phone that emits less radiation and when

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you do shows with Skype keep the cell

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phone away yeah and maybe water down

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that ayahuasca a little bit too bud I

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have no problem with that for trying to

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seek higher intelligences and all this

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other stuff let me ask you the question

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which would be obvious here I'm gonna

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put you on the spot have you taken it

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ayahuasca no I haven't okay

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have you watched people who have taken

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it and seeing what they undergo no I've

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never been around an ayahuasca ceremony

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I have dabbled with the active

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ingredient which is dimethyltryptamine

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and in its most potent form which was

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gathered from Bufo Valerius which is a

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psychedelic frog that actually lives

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down around you

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Jean you know it's the largest frog in

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North America and you can milk you can

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milk them and it produces a very pure

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form of DMT which is the active

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ingredient in ayahuasca I don't care

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what dr. Sauter says he obviously hasn't

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done his homework on that okay so you

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can accept his underground research it

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may be his knowledge of drugs and their

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impact and sources is a bit wanting well

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yeah I I think if anybody claims that

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DMT is not the active ingredient in

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ayahuasca obviously ayahuasca is a

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combination of plants one which allows

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the body to absorb the

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dimethyltryptamine into the system it's

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an MAO inhibitor but he definitely needs

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to do a little research on that because

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I have done some research on the subject

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and and DMT is a very powerful shamanic

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substance it is not for everybody some

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people could be pushed over the edge

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with it and it should not be done as as

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Richard did mentioned as a recreational

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drug it is not that at all it is a

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sacred very serious compound that has

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serious repercussions if you don't

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address the scenario correctly it's not

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for college students to hang out in

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their dorms and consume this stuff no no

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it's not then no drugs are today we have

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a person who's coming on our show who by

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the way is a professional skeptic you

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know this will be fun right it's

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Benjamin Bradford Benjamin Radford is

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the managing editor of The Skeptical

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Inquirer magazine okay all right he's

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part of psycho so he's one of the people

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that sometimes we regard them as the

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enemy and he has a book out here called

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tracking the Chupacabra the vampire

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beast in fact fiction and folklore so

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it's a fascinating little book it's

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about less than 200 pages which compared

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to say a Harry Potter book is pretty

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small you know and the paragraphs are

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spread out a little bit so it's not a

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big book lots of illustrations you can

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go through it in just a few hours but he

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makes a lot of interesting points and

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whether or not folks you

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you are willing to accept that we're

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having a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic here

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there are lots of things that you have

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to listen to on both sides of the

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equation when it comes to the power and

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Rumble you don't just assume you read

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anything from believers but there's

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skeptics about something ignore them

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because the only way you find the truth

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is by looking at all sides of the

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equation agreed that was simple very

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simple in fact a lot of what he says in

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the book I wholeheartedly agree and I

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can't wait to talk about it in more

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depth Benjamin Radford joining us next

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on the power cast I'm gene Steinberg the

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co-host is Chris O'Brien that means

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you're in the para cast are you ready to

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for the GC and radio network providing

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the world with hard-hitting talk radio G

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C and grey talk radio starts here we

307
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:15,570
want to hear from you if you have a

308
00:14:20,930 --> 00:14:17,370
comment or question about the pair cast

309
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:20,940
send it to news at Lapera cast com

310
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:24,690
that's news at the Peres cast calm and

311
00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:26,310
don't forget to visit our famous pair

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cast community forums at forum dot the

313
00:14:38,270 --> 00:14:32,400
podcast.com get in on all the action at

314
00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:38,280
forum dot the podcast comm joining us on

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00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:40,260
the para cast with Jean Steinberg and

316
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:42,630
Chris O'Brien is Benjamin Radford the

317
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:44,970
book is called tracking the chupacabra

318
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:48,090
subtitled the vampire beasts in fact

319
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:50,400
fiction and folklore now those of you

320
00:14:55,810 --> 00:14:53,190
who are obviously interested very

321
00:14:58,940 --> 00:14:55,820
heavily interested in the paranormal

322
00:15:01,700 --> 00:14:58,950
might look the scan sat having a skeptic

323
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:01,710
amongst our team because then as we know

324
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:03,630
you're the editor of The Skeptical

325
00:15:07,820 --> 00:15:06,180
Inquirer magazine right actually deputy

326
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:07,830
editor but yes I've been involved with

327
00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:09,420
them for 12 years now

328
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:11,870
okay what got you into so-called

329
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:14,490
skeptical movement to explore all these

330
00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:18,300
subjects well you know I grew up having

331
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:20,220
a fascination with all sorts of

332
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:21,690
mysteries and the unexplained the

333
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:23,850
paranormal so when I was a teenager I

334
00:15:29,150 --> 00:15:26,940
went and got books on you know UFOs and

335
00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:29,160
and Bermuda Triangle and Bigfoot and

336
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:30,750
this and that and the other and I was

337
00:15:35,390 --> 00:15:33,420
fascinated by these things but I was

338
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:35,400
also kind of disappointed when I read

339
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:36,480
them because there was very little

340
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:39,090
actual investigation in most cases when

341
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,650
I picked up books or read magazines

342
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:42,240
about these these mysterious or

343
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:42,800
paranormal

344
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:45,290
vyx almost invariably they were just

345
00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:47,690
simply repeating stories and stories are

346
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:49,700
fine but I wanted to get more of the

347
00:15:53,019 --> 00:15:51,290
actual investigation I want to know well

348
00:15:54,970 --> 00:15:53,029
you know who who interviewed this

349
00:15:57,250 --> 00:15:54,980
eyewitness who verified that this

350
00:16:00,400 --> 00:15:57,260
particular fact is true so I kind of got

351
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:00,410
dissatisfied in my in my teens and early

352
00:16:05,769 --> 00:16:03,740
20s with with the lack of a real serious

353
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,779
legitimate investigation in paranormal

354
00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:08,480
topics and so one of the things that I

355
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:10,790
wanted to do after I got my my degree

356
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:12,470
and sort of began working with skeptical

357
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:15,110
Inquirer magazine was to to do some

358
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:16,970
investigations I said to myself well if

359
00:16:20,860 --> 00:16:19,250
if I can't count on other people to do

360
00:16:23,019 --> 00:16:20,870
good quality science-based

361
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:23,029
investigations well then damn it I'll do

362
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:25,430
it and I worked with myself and of

363
00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:27,110
course John Nichol who's the senior

364
00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:28,430
research fellow there and other people

365
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:30,380
as well and that's sort of what launched

366
00:16:34,630 --> 00:16:31,490
me into doing in these investigations

367
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:34,640
and and so sort of more broadly applying

368
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,370
science and skepticism to all topics

369
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:40,160
whether it's paranormal or not fast

370
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:42,170
question do you believe there's any

371
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:45,290
reality to any paranormal event anywhere

372
00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:49,730
any how fast question long answer you

373
00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:51,560
know I if you're gonna say is it

374
00:16:56,110 --> 00:16:53,500
paranormal I mean caramel by definition

375
00:16:58,930 --> 00:16:56,120
depending what definition using is

376
00:17:01,420 --> 00:16:58,940
beyond the normal so I would have to say

377
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:01,430
do I believe that that there are there

378
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:04,010
are supernatural things I believe that

379
00:17:08,409 --> 00:17:06,740
there there might be but I I think that

380
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:08,419
you need to use science and evidence to

381
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:10,370
find them if they're in need out there

382
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:13,520
when it comes to UFOs we have all this

383
00:17:18,909 --> 00:17:16,300
supposed evidence out there how do we

384
00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:18,919
basically end the controversy there how

385
00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:21,800
do we actually find out what's really

386
00:17:26,049 --> 00:17:24,230
going on because we can say wow this

387
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:26,059
isn't real for whatever reason but then

388
00:17:30,159 --> 00:17:27,410
we have the photographs and the radar

389
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:30,169
cases and all that how do we actually

390
00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:32,570
get a real investigation going without

391
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:37,059
any preconceptions which is so important

392
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:39,650
things in some ways it's similar to the

393
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,030
situation when you're looking for

394
00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:43,520
evidence for Bigfoot you know you have I

395
00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:45,230
witness sightings you have reports you

396
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:47,150
have some fuzzy photos you have this and

397
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,760
that and you also have you have reports

398
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:51,679
by credible eyewitnesses you know people

399
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,110
who are not stupid they're not crazy

400
00:17:58,140 --> 00:17:56,320
they're sincere believable people

401
00:17:59,580 --> 00:17:58,150
and the reporting thing and the problem

402
00:18:01,950 --> 00:17:59,590
is you know how do you get beyond this

403
00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:01,960
baseline of evidence that hasn't gotten

404
00:18:07,290 --> 00:18:04,710
anybody anywhere so far and ultimately

405
00:18:08,730 --> 00:18:07,300
you know if these things exist then

406
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:08,740
there should be hard evidence for them

407
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:10,930
if weather ghosts exist or Bigfoot

408
00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:13,210
exists or extraterrestrial craft exist

409
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:14,980
or chupacabras exist for that matter

410
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:16,840
this shouldn't be a matter of just

411
00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:19,030
supposition and eyewitness accounts

412
00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:20,590
there should be hard evidence somewhere

413
00:18:24,450 --> 00:18:23,080
and so we would need hard evidence we

414
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:24,460
would need some sort of something you

415
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:27,490
can test forensically and and get that

416
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:30,070
okay well if someone sees a ghost okay

417
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:33,670
you have a visual report I saw something

418
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:36,130
and you know it looks like my dead

419
00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:37,690
grandmother or something doesn't matter

420
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:40,900
what it is mm-hmm how then can you go

421
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:42,850
about proving what someone can only

422
00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:45,010
attest to visually I mean you'll take

423
00:18:49,230 --> 00:18:47,080
that testimony if they say well John

424
00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:49,240
Smith came into the grocery store and

425
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:53,080
shot the cashier and killed the cashier

426
00:19:00,030 --> 00:18:57,130
John Smith identify him in a lineup he

427
00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:00,040
gets convicted of murder I saw a ghost

428
00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:03,790
okay an apparition disappeared in front

429
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:06,280
of my eyes you don't believe that but

430
00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:08,080
you believe the testimony in a murder

431
00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:11,320
case no I don't believe that at all in

432
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:13,480
fact I take eyewitness accounts very

433
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:15,010
seriously and I interview eyewitnesses

434
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:16,690
all the time who tell me about different

435
00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:18,970
things that they have seen so to my mind

436
00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:21,100
that the issue is not do you discount of

437
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:22,900
witness testimony because of course you

438
00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:24,670
shouldn't and you can't but what you do

439
00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:27,100
do is you you use that not as as

440
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:29,950
evidence in and of itself but as a step

441
00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:32,080
towards evidence so for example if

442
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:34,420
someone says they saw a ghost first of

443
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:36,250
all I'd ask them how do they know

444
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:37,690
specific was the ghost you know what

445
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:39,610
what characteristics led them to

446
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:41,290
conclude that it was a ghost I'm not

447
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:43,000
saying it was there wasn't but that's

448
00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:45,250
that's not an interloping question but

449
00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:47,080
then the question would become well what

450
00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:49,180
else might it have been what if for

451
00:19:54,270 --> 00:19:51,100
example the person saw something out of

452
00:19:56,190 --> 00:19:54,280
the corner eye in in the store or

453
00:19:57,870 --> 00:19:56,200
somewhere else and there was a video

454
00:20:00,090 --> 00:19:57,880
camera and the video camera showed

455
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:00,100
nothing at all if the video camera

456
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:01,930
doesn't show anything that doesn't

457
00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:04,210
disprove the person's experience but it

458
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:05,980
does provide the second Avenue of

459
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:08,530
Investigation so I wouldn't discount

460
00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:08,970
any of what

461
00:20:14,299 --> 00:20:10,950
experience but it's important to realize

462
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:14,309
that my witnesses can be and often are

463
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:16,710
wrong you know you can use the example

464
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:19,380
of police lineups well there are

465
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:21,120
literally dozens and hundreds of cases

466
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:22,650
of people who have been convicted and

467
00:20:27,710 --> 00:20:24,809
sent to prison sometimes on death row

468
00:20:29,330 --> 00:20:27,720
based on faulty eyewitness testimony and

469
00:20:31,399 --> 00:20:29,340
they've been cleared through DNA

470
00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:31,409
analysis okay you always have another

471
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:33,539
kind of evidence we have the DNA we

472
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:35,250
might have other witnesses we might have

473
00:20:39,649 --> 00:20:38,010
an alibi that you can check to see well

474
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,659
this person couldn't have been at the

475
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:42,000
grocery store when you thought he was he

476
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:43,770
had to be somewhere else this is the

477
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:44,250
proof

478
00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:46,020
so hopefully you get that person to quit

479
00:20:52,330 --> 00:20:47,700
and get that person off in the case of a

480
00:20:54,409 --> 00:20:52,340
ghost you can't touch it I don't think

481
00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:54,419
you probably know there are people that

482
00:20:59,600 --> 00:20:56,700
disagree with you I've I have talked to

483
00:21:02,450 --> 00:20:59,610
people who said they felt ghosts if your

484
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,460
belief is that you don't basically go up

485
00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:04,200
to the ghost and shake their hand you

486
00:21:09,740 --> 00:21:07,289
will feel a presence something is here

487
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:09,750
and now I see it and now it's gone so I

488
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:12,510
felt it I saw it but I can't touch it I

489
00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:14,970
can't get the fingerprint what

490
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,870
distinction you're making between

491
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:18,000
feeling and touching feeling in the

492
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:21,000
sense of I sense a presence okay I sense

493
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:22,890
something is weird something's happening

494
00:21:27,049 --> 00:21:25,110
I see the ghost and maybe the ghost says

495
00:21:29,299 --> 00:21:27,059
something or not I don't know okay so

496
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,309
how do I go about proving that that's

497
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:31,440
robbed that's the problem how do I prove

498
00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:34,590
what I saw is what I saw there's a

499
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:36,750
couple things first of all you know as

500
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:39,480
you know the issue comes down a lot of

501
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:41,340
times to psychology because people can

502
00:21:45,740 --> 00:21:43,950
sense things that don't exist one

503
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:45,750
example that I give is a friend of mine

504
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:47,730
told me I had known him for several

505
00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:49,590
years and I noticed that he never he

506
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:52,169
never came to visit my house I didn't

507
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,460
know if it was you know because I had Bo

508
00:21:57,020 --> 00:21:55,200
or he didn't like me whatever else and

509
00:21:58,909 --> 00:21:57,030
he finally told me that the reason he

510
00:22:01,310 --> 00:21:58,919
never came to visit me was because I

511
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,320
live across the river and he had panic

512
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:03,360
attacks about crossing a bridge and in

513
00:22:07,159 --> 00:22:05,370
this case I mean that it was very real

514
00:22:08,899 --> 00:22:07,169
he had panic attacks he had sweaty you

515
00:22:11,659 --> 00:22:08,909
could feel the pressure on him but it

516
00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:11,669
was it was in his head it wasn't it had

517
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:13,020
nothing to do with the external reality

518
00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:15,480
so you know keep just because someone

519
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:16,950
senses something

520
00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:18,809
it doesn't necessarily correspond with

521
00:22:22,540 --> 00:22:20,520
anything real and that's what I said

522
00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:22,550
that's the whole point being exactly

523
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:24,860
how do you quantify the reality that's

524
00:22:28,810 --> 00:22:27,170
of course the dilemma we try to explore

525
00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:28,820
in the paranormal is how to take all

526
00:22:32,890 --> 00:22:30,380
these experiences that people have had

527
00:22:34,570 --> 00:22:32,900
and see if we can make some sense or

528
00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:34,580
maybe we can't make sense of them maybe

529
00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:37,040
they are almost like you know religious

530
00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:38,630
miracles that things happen but we

531
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:40,760
really can't prove it except for the

532
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,370
eyewitness testimony and there you go we

533
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:45,440
have Benjamin Radford the book is

534
00:22:50,050 --> 00:22:47,690
tracking the chupacabra which is what

535
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:50,060
we're gonna get into next because this

536
00:23:01,120 --> 00:22:52,490
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

537
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:01,130
in the para cast hey neighbors

538
00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:03,200
meetings are an essential part of any

539
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:05,060
business you know making presentations

540
00:23:09,310 --> 00:23:07,130
to clients collaborating with your

541
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:09,320
colleagues will make them as simple as

542
00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:11,930
possible to run and organize use go to

543
00:23:17,530 --> 00:23:14,900
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[Music]

631
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:18,720
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

632
00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:26,260
[Music]

633
00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:28,510
Benjamin Radford the guest the book is

634
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:31,190
tracking the chupacabra our co-host is

635
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:33,050
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

636
00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:36,050
in the para cast so now we move to the

637
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:38,870
book what for those who haven't explored

638
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:41,840
the subject is a chupacabra my latest

639
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:43,610
book yes the chupacabra well the

640
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:46,610
chupacabra it's it's the world's third

641
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,130
best known monster after a Bigfoot in

642
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:51,440
Loch Ness monster and it's probably this

643
00:27:56,919 --> 00:27:53,330
world's second best known vampire after

644
00:27:59,950 --> 00:27:56,929
Dracula it's said to to suck blood out

645
00:28:01,630 --> 00:27:59,960
of its prey it's a vampire and Shuba

646
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:01,640
cover means goat sucker in Spanish

647
00:28:05,410 --> 00:28:03,110
because ghosts are supposed to be its

648
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:05,420
favorite prey even though it's been said

649
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:07,370
to kill and and take blood out of

650
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:10,850
domestic pets and cattle and pigs and

651
00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:13,510
then why stalk and know things it's

652
00:28:17,950 --> 00:28:15,590
originally came from Puerto Rico in

653
00:28:20,350 --> 00:28:17,960
Latin America and in 1995 was first

654
00:28:22,810 --> 00:28:20,360
sighted then and since that time it's

655
00:28:25,150 --> 00:28:22,820
appeared in several different forms

656
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:25,160
around the world primarily in the North

657
00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:28,070
and South America but it's now no it's

658
00:28:31,210 --> 00:28:29,390
now known worldwide I mean it's

659
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:31,220
essentially a global phenomenon let's

660
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:33,050
look through the history how far back

661
00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:34,850
can you go and do in this kind of

662
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:37,220
research well that's a great question

663
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:41,030
because when I began my research and I

664
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:42,500
should just point out that I've been

665
00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:44,120
investigating these sorts of cryptids

666
00:28:47,650 --> 00:28:45,860
and critters illogical things for for

667
00:28:50,049 --> 00:28:47,660
many years now I I co-wrote a book

668
00:28:52,299 --> 00:28:50,059
called lake monster mysteries in 2007

669
00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:52,309
that dealt with Lake Monsters and have

670
00:28:56,530 --> 00:28:54,280
also done stuff on Mothman and

671
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:56,540
chupacabra and Bigfoot know things as

672
00:29:00,340 --> 00:28:58,250
well so I already had sort of

673
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:00,350
pre-existing framework for news news

674
00:29:05,169 --> 00:29:03,200
analyses and when I looked into it I had

675
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:05,179
always sort of assumed that the

676
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:06,370
chupacabra had been around for decades

677
00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:09,170
you know if you look at the lore of a

678
00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:11,030
Bigfoot for example or the Loch Ness

679
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:11,720
monster

680
00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:14,690
those claimed to go back in some cases

681
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:16,790
centuries if you're gonna if you believe

682
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:19,370
I like old Native American stories and

683
00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:22,490
tales but in the case of chupacabra what

684
00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:24,110
I found that it really only dates back

685
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:27,140
to 1995 it's a very very new creature

686
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:29,860
it's only been around for 15 or 16 years

687
00:29:34,090 --> 00:29:32,480
so that was one of the things that

688
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,100
really intrigued me about the monster oh

689
00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:36,320
as well well hold on here I mean how you

690
00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:37,400
know real

691
00:29:41,950 --> 00:29:39,680
real biological zoological creatures

692
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,960
don't appear out of nowhere I mean it's

693
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:43,760
not like you know the leopard suddenly

694
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:45,950
appeared you know in 1983 New Jersey

695
00:29:50,110 --> 00:29:48,110
that was a real puzzling thing was

696
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:50,120
multiplying why weren't there reports of

697
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:51,320
chupacabras

698
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:54,170
in the 50s and 60s and 70s and even

699
00:29:57,730 --> 00:29:56,810
earlier but there just weren't or at

700
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,740
least they weren't beneath that I've

701
00:30:02,140 --> 00:29:59,840
been able to find what caused it to

702
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:02,150
happen when it happened where did it

703
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:05,690
start so you go back to the original

704
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:08,690
chupacabra which began in August of 1995

705
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:11,210
in Puerto Rico in the summer of Konoe

706
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:12,890
Venus outside at the capital of San Juan

707
00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:16,850
and a woman named Madeline Tolentino was

708
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,590
the first person to see the chupacabra

709
00:30:23,770 --> 00:30:20,480
and she gave a very very detailed

710
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:23,780
description of what she saw and she said

711
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:26,270
it was three to five feet tall and was

712
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:29,690
bipedal had had row of distant spikes

713
00:30:35,410 --> 00:30:32,510
going down the back it had long arms and

714
00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:35,420
legs and sort of distinctive red or

715
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:38,180
black wraparound eyes no nose to speak

716
00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:40,550
of smaller absent ears things like that

717
00:30:46,590 --> 00:30:43,190
and she just is a very very detailed

718
00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:46,600
description which soon became the

719
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:50,540
standard template classic example the

720
00:30:55,870 --> 00:30:54,290
chupacabra that went worldwide and and

721
00:30:58,510 --> 00:30:55,880
it was just it's just you know basically

722
00:31:01,240 --> 00:30:58,520
what happened was that that her her

723
00:31:03,910 --> 00:31:01,250
sighting was sort of co-opted by UFO

724
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:03,920
believers in Puerto Rico there's a very

725
00:31:07,420 --> 00:31:05,120
strong as you probably know there's very

726
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:07,430
strong UFO believer presence in Puerto

727
00:31:14,530 --> 00:31:11,450
Rico and one of the main people there a

728
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:14,540
man named Jorge Martine heard her story

729
00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:17,360
and created a drawing based on her

730
00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:19,880
depiction and from there just basically

731
00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:21,620
went all of the world through the

732
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:23,630
internet so that was the original type

733
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:25,250
of chupacabra and that was seen in

734
00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:29,120
primarily Puerto Rico in 1995 1996 1997

735
00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:32,780
and by 2000 it wasn't seen so much I

736
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:34,160
mean there was sighting here too but it

737
00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:37,510
mostly faded away and moved to Chile

738
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:41,240
well well that's in some cases in more

739
00:31:45,670 --> 00:31:43,850
totality there was claims that that you

740
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:45,680
know there was a rash of

741
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:49,250
animal deaths in Chile

742
00:31:54,010 --> 00:31:51,830
although in my research people weren't

743
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,020
necessarily describing the original

744
00:31:58,420 --> 00:31:56,240
chupacabra in in those accounts

745
00:32:01,720 --> 00:31:58,430
primarily people were saying that that's

746
00:32:04,750 --> 00:32:01,730
something presumably the chupacabra had

747
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:04,760
attacked the animals but because this

748
00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:05,630
was done overnight

749
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:08,750
and in the unit excuse me for

750
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:11,750
interrupting I disagree with you on that

751
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:13,430
I've done quite a bit of research into

752
00:32:18,430 --> 00:32:15,290
this subject and there were quite a

753
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:18,440
number of reports in April May in June

754
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:21,950
of 2000 and some of them described very

755
00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:25,430
very similar there were very similar

756
00:32:30,610 --> 00:32:29,180
descriptions to the Puerto Rico version

757
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:30,620
of this and we're going to get into the

758
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:33,770
other version so obviously and and it

759
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:35,510
was described as having a row of spines

760
00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:38,090
down its back there were a number of

761
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:40,070
reports that described leathery type

762
00:32:43,810 --> 00:32:40,850
wings

763
00:32:47,890 --> 00:32:43,820
other reports described it able to leap

764
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:47,900
in a very abnormal way which also we

765
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:51,080
found in some of the early reports from

766
00:32:57,460 --> 00:32:53,600
Puerto Rico so I mean it's not

767
00:32:59,140 --> 00:32:57,470
exclusively a description of a what

768
00:33:00,910 --> 00:32:59,150
appears to be just a Puerto Rican

769
00:33:02,620 --> 00:33:00,920
version of this there have been other

770
00:33:07,510 --> 00:33:02,630
descriptions of it from elsewhere I just

771
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:07,520
wanted to point that out I didn't mean

772
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,530
to suggest that the Puerto Rican version

773
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:11,600
chupacabra hadn't been seen in Latin

774
00:33:15,670 --> 00:33:13,850
America because it was seen and reported

775
00:33:17,770 --> 00:33:15,680
in Mexico and Chile and Argentina and

776
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:17,780
elsewhere so yeah I mean I there's

777
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:20,240
there's I don't I don't you correct it

778
00:33:26,980 --> 00:33:23,210
did kind of fade out in Puerto Rico yeah

779
00:33:28,990 --> 00:33:26,990
and you know it sort of reappeared in

780
00:33:30,550 --> 00:33:29,000
various other places and and you know

781
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:30,560
when you'd back go back and look at the

782
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:32,170
original descriptions of the chupacabra

783
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:35,690
the the one that Tolentino gave out is

784
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:39,290
the most popular and most the you know

785
00:33:42,670 --> 00:33:40,850
best known to patient but there as you

786
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:42,680
point out there a wide variety some

787
00:33:45,130 --> 00:33:44,090
people said it have a tail some people

788
00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:45,140
said doesn't have a tail

789
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:46,940
so people were ordered wings some people

790
00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:49,070
said didn't have wings so there was

791
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:51,230
actually quite a bit of variation within

792
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:54,110
that that original prototype yeah and

793
00:33:58,330 --> 00:33:55,730
it's also important I think to point out

794
00:33:58,930 --> 00:33:58,340
that this is almost exclusively a Latin

795
00:34:03,310 --> 00:33:58,940
American

796
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:03,320
a country sort of a phenomenon although

797
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:05,870
I think about two or three years ago

798
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:07,730
there were some reports that may have

799
00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:10,700
filtered out of Russia but I think by

800
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:12,860
and large these reports are pretty much

801
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:15,650
exclusively from from Spanish American

802
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:18,190
speaking or spanish-speaking countries

803
00:34:23,050 --> 00:34:20,450
the canine types which is a whole

804
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,060
different subject I think what continue

805
00:34:27,790 --> 00:34:26,000
again sorry right no no you're quite

806
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:27,800
right the the chupacabra is primarily

807
00:34:31,810 --> 00:34:29,810
limited to spanish-speaking areas with

808
00:34:33,670 --> 00:34:31,820
the exception of Brazil where they speak

809
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Portuguese and there were some reports

810
00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:36,770
of the chupacabra release date it's

811
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:39,020
presumably similar related creature

812
00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:43,130
called Obito in Brazil as well so yeah

813
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:45,260
okay the book is called tracking the

814
00:34:50,350 --> 00:34:48,110
chupacabra and I guess the question I'm

815
00:34:54,670 --> 00:34:50,360
gonna ask you before we go further all

816
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,680
these reports specifically in a special

817
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:56,960
part of the world for the most part do

818
00:35:01,330 --> 00:34:58,330
you think that they were seeing

819
00:35:02,830 --> 00:35:01,340
conventional animals of some kind or do

820
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:02,840
you see any evidence at all for

821
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:05,090
weirdness here referring to the original

822
00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:08,000
type of chupacabra then the sequel's

823
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:10,280
well the things with eyewitness account

824
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:12,230
is that you can just lump them all

825
00:35:15,550 --> 00:35:13,670
together and say there's one blanket

826
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:15,560
explanation for them because because

827
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:17,810
there isn't there's a wide variety of

828
00:35:22,540 --> 00:35:19,730
things that people may have seen some

829
00:35:24,910 --> 00:35:22,550
people may have seen in your original

830
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:24,920
original Oh Riko in the in the 90s

831
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:27,200
people may have seen residence monkeys

832
00:35:32,530 --> 00:35:30,560
was one explanation dogs strange things

833
00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:32,540
at night so I don't think that there's

834
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:34,310
one blanket explanation for all of them

835
00:35:39,250 --> 00:35:35,990
I think that some of the reports were

836
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:39,260
clearly fictional I came across lots and

837
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:41,710
lots of accounts that just just simply

838
00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:43,970
simply had no credibility to them

839
00:35:48,850 --> 00:35:47,240
whatsoever other accounts were quite

840
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:48,860
believable someone saw something out of

841
00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:50,330
the corner Ryan and who knows what that

842
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:52,670
was I want to ask you some more details

843
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:54,650
about that in a moment such as how do we

844
00:35:59,080 --> 00:35:57,200
know that maybe they just made things up

845
00:36:00,940 --> 00:35:59,090
we'll have to look into that further the

846
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:00,950
book is tracking the chupacabra the

847
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:03,200
vampire beast in fact fiction in

848
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:05,810
folklore from Benjamin Radford here's

849
00:36:10,510 --> 00:36:07,970
how you contact us if you have a comment

850
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:10,520
or question about the power cast write

851
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:12,140
to us news at the power

852
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:14,450
calm once again that's news at the power

853
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:17,210
cast calm we guarantee we will read each

854
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:19,010
and every message you send we will

855
00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:21,290
respond to most of them Chris or I or

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one of our moderators our form speaking

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of our forums forum dr parra cast calm

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for america's calm this is the place

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they're talking about all over the

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planet online the famous para cast

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community forums you can participate you

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take LEC we get that question all the

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to 40 garlic cloves it's effective

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important search in overall we are the

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gcn radio network you're in the darkest

966
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you never know what's going to happen

967
00:41:25,810 --> 00:41:24,099
we have been Radford the book is

968
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:25,820
trekking the chupacabra we're gonna look

969
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:27,770
at these weird creatures and see whether

970
00:41:31,870 --> 00:41:29,810
there is really something true to them

971
00:41:33,490 --> 00:41:31,880
just miss identification someone's just

972
00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:33,500
making it all up try to get a little

973
00:41:37,569 --> 00:41:35,420
publicity maybe drinking too much of the

974
00:41:40,030 --> 00:41:37,579
sauce what's the reality co-host is

975
00:41:42,670 --> 00:41:40,040
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg okay so

976
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,680
I guess you were raising the different

977
00:41:46,839 --> 00:41:45,200
categories of sightings and I gather

978
00:41:48,819 --> 00:41:46,849
some people who maybe you're just making

979
00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:48,829
it all up how do you know that I don't

980
00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:50,180
assume that people are making it up at

981
00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:53,240
all in fact my my assumption in this

982
00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:54,950
investigation as in all my

983
00:41:59,920 --> 00:41:57,140
investigations is that most people are

984
00:42:02,079 --> 00:41:59,930
sincere genuine eyewitnesses most people

985
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:02,089
really believed they saw something so I

986
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:04,010
found the very very few cases where

987
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:05,810
people were actually making it up I

988
00:42:10,089 --> 00:42:07,609
found many more cases where people

989
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:10,099
simply were reporting things that they

990
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:12,890
that they that you know they they saw

991
00:42:16,450 --> 00:42:14,270
something out of the corn there I their

992
00:42:18,579 --> 00:42:16,460
eyes sore and their you know their minds

993
00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:18,589
sort of filled in the details well we

994
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:19,880
also have hundreds and hundreds of

995
00:42:23,859 --> 00:42:22,430
animal carcasses as well which I'm sure

996
00:42:25,930 --> 00:42:23,869
we're going to talk about at some point

997
00:42:28,990 --> 00:42:25,940
but but you do have physical evidence of

998
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:29,000
some some sort of predatory or presence

999
00:42:35,140 --> 00:42:32,569
so we we have to keep that in mind so

1000
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,150
yeah absolutely and of course you know

1001
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:37,280
predation has been as plagued mankind

1002
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:39,740
for for millennia so there's there's no

1003
00:42:43,809 --> 00:42:41,089
doubt that there are animals that attack

1004
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:43,819
other animals yep okay so someone sees

1005
00:42:48,490 --> 00:42:45,290
something in the corner of their eye and

1006
00:42:51,370 --> 00:42:48,500
they confabulate something that's maybe

1007
00:42:53,950 --> 00:42:51,380
we're so what might they have seen other

1008
00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:53,960
than something weird or paranormal or

1009
00:42:58,270 --> 00:42:55,700
whatever Oh again it depends on the

1010
00:43:00,359 --> 00:42:58,280
specific case you know there was a taxi

1011
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:00,369
driver that reported that he saw some

1012
00:43:06,099 --> 00:43:02,810
bipedal winged creature running along

1013
00:43:08,170 --> 00:43:06,109
his taxi at night I have no idea what

1014
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:08,180
that was it could have been a hoax it

1015
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:10,730
could have been I have no idea so again

1016
00:43:13,630 --> 00:43:12,170
you have to go about the specific case

1017
00:43:15,309 --> 00:43:13,640
it's kind of hard for me to give you a

1018
00:43:17,380 --> 00:43:15,319
blanket explanation okay well let's look

1019
00:43:18,819 --> 00:43:17,390
at that one girl so I don't know it

1020
00:43:20,290 --> 00:43:18,829
could have been something else I don't

1021
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:20,300
know what it might have been its

1022
00:43:24,609 --> 00:43:22,880
mistaken he saw something that was

1023
00:43:26,410 --> 00:43:24,619
fairly normal at night of course the

1024
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,420
vision isn't very good you don't really

1025
00:43:30,849 --> 00:43:27,920
get a clear indication of what you're

1026
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:30,859
seeing so he you know saw something and

1027
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:32,900
made it up made up the rest of the story

1028
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:33,490
what

1029
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:37,119
lot of times is that is that the eye

1030
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:39,250
witnesses themselves are actually much

1031
00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:41,170
more reserved in their accounts than

1032
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:43,540
what you see it in the in the news media

1033
00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:46,930
I encountered many cases where it seemed

1034
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:49,540
that the reporters who are writing that

1035
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:51,280
the stories either for illah cetera

1036
00:43:56,340 --> 00:43:54,010
which is a tabloid and in Puerto Rico or

1037
00:43:57,870 --> 00:43:56,350
elsewhere they sort of spiced up the

1038
00:43:59,970 --> 00:43:57,880
story I don't not gonna say they they

1039
00:44:01,770 --> 00:43:59,980
fabricated it but certainly they they

1040
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:01,780
added some details and sort of made it

1041
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:03,250
sound more dramatic than the openness

1042
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:05,890
themselves made it out to be those dang

1043
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:09,010
reporters for those dang reporters okay

1044
00:44:14,130 --> 00:44:11,290
so in this particular situation here it

1045
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,140
was the press that made a big deal of it

1046
00:44:17,460 --> 00:44:16,000
in case the chupacabra there are

1047
00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:17,470
actually two different factors one of

1048
00:44:22,859 --> 00:44:20,350
them was again the co-opting by UFO

1049
00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:22,869
believers in Puerto Rico of Tolentino as

1050
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:25,000
original description because they

1051
00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:27,760
believed that the chupacabra was

1052
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:30,220
probably an extraterrestrial or at least

1053
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:32,170
connection with extraterrestrials the

1054
00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:35,380
second thing was so the UFO people

1055
00:44:40,050 --> 00:44:37,480
people who believe in UFOs or

1056
00:44:43,290 --> 00:44:40,060
investigate UFOs you're suggesting here

1057
00:44:46,109 --> 00:44:43,300
that they will make these cases seem to

1058
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:46,119
be something related to the UFO belief

1059
00:44:51,349 --> 00:44:48,130
that some Nova Jane really you don't

1060
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:51,359
think that that could ever happen do you

1061
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:54,880
know what I'm saying you know that's a

1062
00:45:01,140 --> 00:44:57,010
real major problem in this field is all

1063
00:45:03,450 --> 00:45:01,150
three of us know yeah I there are many

1064
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:03,460
many different ideas about what the

1065
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,050
chupacabra is some people believe it's

1066
00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:06,640
an alien pet some people believe it's

1067
00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:08,590
the results of a top-secret US

1068
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:10,750
government unit genetic experiments

1069
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:12,250
people think that it's the cause is that

1070
00:45:16,650 --> 00:45:14,350
the AIDS virus some people believe that

1071
00:45:18,930 --> 00:45:16,660
it's it's a sign of Armageddon and the

1072
00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:18,940
end times and opinions a dime-a-dozen

1073
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:21,190
mmm and we can believe anything we want

1074
00:45:27,810 --> 00:45:23,590
but right now we're assuming then that

1075
00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:27,820
in some cases the media is exaggerating

1076
00:45:31,859 --> 00:45:29,369
something that might be very simple

1077
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:31,869
misidentification of some kind of

1078
00:45:39,090 --> 00:45:34,750
conventional creature simple explanation

1079
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:39,100
but somebody a news reporter or his or

1080
00:45:44,310 --> 00:45:41,890
her editors they embellish the event so

1081
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,320
it becomes something more than it was is

1082
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:46,480
that the case

1083
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:48,130
what you find it when you go back and

1084
00:45:52,290 --> 00:45:50,530
research the original accounts the

1085
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:52,300
original tabloid accounts in Puerto Rico

1086
00:45:59,540 --> 00:45:57,130
in 1996-1997 many of the stories not all

1087
00:46:02,040 --> 00:45:59,550
of them and many of them are clearly

1088
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:02,050
embellished and exaggerated there was

1089
00:46:05,220 --> 00:46:03,520
one there was one particular example I

1090
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:05,230
talked about in the book where a

1091
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:07,660
reporter talked about how a young girl

1092
00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:09,940
had seen the chupacabra had been

1093
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:10,990
kidnapped by it

1094
00:46:17,220 --> 00:46:13,990
the chupacabra then tattooed or had some

1095
00:46:19,290 --> 00:46:17,230
sort of skin marks on the girl it then

1096
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:19,300
escaped and then the girl turned out to

1097
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:21,910
the girl shortly became a genius like a

1098
00:46:26,310 --> 00:46:24,850
child prodigy it's not clear whether

1099
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:26,320
whether it was the tattoo or the

1100
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:29,200
chupacabra but this was reported as a

1101
00:46:32,970 --> 00:46:31,510
straight chupacabra news story and it's

1102
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:32,980
it's you know it's a way in the world

1103
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:36,040
news kind of thing essentially it is you

1104
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:38,050
have to but this is you know that was

1105
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:39,730
not untypical of a lot of the news

1106
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:42,610
coverage of the original rican

1107
00:46:46,980 --> 00:46:44,290
chupacabra i mean so that that's

1108
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:46,990
actually not that wasn't a typical of

1109
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:48,610
what people were hearing about

1110
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:51,790
okay so separating the story the news

1111
00:46:57,690 --> 00:46:54,510
story where you have the tabloid writers

1112
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:57,700
taken anything out there and making up

1113
00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:00,160
something mm okay so we know the

1114
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:01,990
President Carter met with Martians or

1115
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:03,910
something whatever it was back in the

1116
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:06,640
70s okay so we go back to the original

1117
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:08,650
event how do you do that do you go back

1118
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:10,690
to the original witnesses or you do you

1119
00:47:16,830 --> 00:47:13,210
assume because the tabloid has all this

1120
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:16,840
elaborate invention behind it that they

1121
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:18,790
can't possibly be anything that has a

1122
00:47:24,030 --> 00:47:22,000
reality to it in this case I did a

1123
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:24,040
couple different things one of them was

1124
00:47:29,970 --> 00:47:27,010
I researched as much as I could on the

1125
00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:29,980
original accounts that were taken at the

1126
00:47:34,830 --> 00:47:33,190
time in Puerto Rico so for that I relied

1127
00:47:37,710 --> 00:47:34,840
heavily on Scott paralysis book

1128
00:47:41,070 --> 00:47:37,720
chupacabras and other mysteries in which

1129
00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:41,080
he reports quite a few accounts from

1130
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:43,180
from the time the other thing I did was

1131
00:47:47,070 --> 00:47:45,280
the other thing I did was go to Puerto

1132
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:47,080
Rico and I interviewed eyewitnesses

1133
00:47:52,350 --> 00:47:50,530
there as well as the original eyewitness

1134
00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:52,360
metal and tolentino who who's basically

1135
00:47:58,010 --> 00:47:54,940
citing spurred the the entire the entire

1136
00:48:00,180 --> 00:47:58,020
to recover a form and I played Barry

1137
00:48:02,970 --> 00:48:00,190
alright pretty much

1138
00:48:05,849 --> 00:48:02,980
then the third thing I did was I went to

1139
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:05,859
library archives in Puerto Rico in San

1140
00:48:10,650 --> 00:48:07,930
Juan and elsewhere and I research

1141
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,660
original chupacabra reports because

1142
00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:12,640
because I speak decent Spanish I

1143
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:14,230
photocopied them and I could read them

1144
00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:16,810
and and so I got information from there

1145
00:48:22,859 --> 00:48:19,990
and that 30 gives you a more of a more

1146
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:22,869
original source from more primary source

1147
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:24,490
than just sort of you know a third hand

1148
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:26,470
stories do you think part of the problem

1149
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:28,690
is that people are taking too many of

1150
00:48:33,690 --> 00:48:30,940
the third-party stories the third hand

1151
00:48:36,359 --> 00:48:33,700
that extravagant headlines in these

1152
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:36,369
tabloids and running with it and just

1153
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:38,530
taking any event anywhere as being part

1154
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:41,410
of this chupacabra mystery I think

1155
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:44,470
that's exactly what's going on I agree

1156
00:48:54,180 --> 00:48:51,390
with you Ben on that too so we're good

1157
00:49:00,839 --> 00:48:54,190
you know Chris agrees with you we know

1158
00:49:03,420 --> 00:49:00,849
it's not a mystery let's go on with the

1159
00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:03,430
caveat I agree that part of what we're

1160
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:06,520
seeing here and I think the that it

1161
00:49:10,620 --> 00:49:08,710
should be stressed that you know your

1162
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:10,630
point at the at the top of the show

1163
00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:12,400
about this all of a sudden appearing out

1164
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:16,030
of nowhere in 1995 is I think really

1165
00:49:21,390 --> 00:49:18,640
telling and I think the spread of this

1166
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:21,400
whole meme and the culture is is a

1167
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:24,790
perfect example of how urban legends and

1168
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:27,910
in popular sort of modern myths

1169
00:49:32,460 --> 00:49:30,130
gets started propagated and spread you

1170
00:49:34,770 --> 00:49:32,470
know this is a good example I'm not

1171
00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:34,780
saying that that that there's not the

1172
00:49:39,870 --> 00:49:36,190
possibility of something being behind

1173
00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:39,880
this mystery some sort of real predatory

1174
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:42,190
presence that has been that is being

1175
00:49:46,859 --> 00:49:43,810
talked about but I don't think it really

1176
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:46,869
bears too much of a resemblance of what

1177
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:49,210
the pop culture version of it is no I

1178
00:49:54,210 --> 00:49:51,760
and you make a very good point which is

1179
00:49:56,579 --> 00:49:54,220
that is it's not a or b it's not one of

1180
00:49:58,859 --> 00:49:56,589
the other it's not as if either there is

1181
00:50:01,920 --> 00:49:58,869
a real chupacabra or this is a media

1182
00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:01,930
hyped monster it's big you know it's it

1183
00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:06,220
could be both you know you regardless of

1184
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:07,420
whether you believe the chupacabra or

1185
00:50:12,329 --> 00:50:09,970
not it's an undeniable fact that the

1186
00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:12,339
media and the pop culture is a huge part

1187
00:50:18,380 --> 00:50:14,190
of the lore of surround

1188
00:50:20,569 --> 00:50:18,390
so he I would argue that in fact that

1189
00:50:23,809 --> 00:50:20,579
the entire phenomena much of the fam has

1190
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:23,819
been propelled without a true Chupacabra

1191
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:25,800
at its core I said we might we might

1192
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:28,079
differ there a little bit on that I do

1193
00:50:33,230 --> 00:50:29,810
have a sense that there is something

1194
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:33,240
high strange at the core of this I think

1195
00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:35,490
that the actual events that could be

1196
00:50:40,819 --> 00:50:38,310
attributed to this particular entity or

1197
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:40,829
whatever you want to call it are are a

1198
00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:43,550
small small percentage of the overall

1199
00:50:49,690 --> 00:50:45,990
appearance of the of the whole mystery

1200
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:49,700
but again this is where we differ Joe I

1201
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:52,290
assume that there are law enforcement

1202
00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:54,930
officials and veterinarians and others

1203
00:50:59,900 --> 00:50:57,420
who are able to determine cause of death

1204
00:51:02,359 --> 00:50:59,910
and whether an animal has been truly

1205
00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:02,369
exaggerated this is an element that you

1206
00:51:05,839 --> 00:51:03,960
bring up I think very effectively in

1207
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,849
your book this is one of the mainstays

1208
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:07,680
of this phenomenon that these animals

1209
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,300
are drained of blood and fluids and

1210
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:12,480
having undergone this same scenario in

1211
00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:15,510
the cattle mutilation phenomenon I find

1212
00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:19,260
that it's it's highly it's it's just not

1213
00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:22,380
true these animals I don't think are

1214
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,390
drained I know the cattle are very

1215
00:51:29,170 --> 00:51:26,640
rarely drained of fluids in all the

1216
00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:29,180
cases that I've checked so we're going

1217
00:51:35,210 --> 00:51:31,619
in a moment we'll have all the CSI

1218
00:51:37,730 --> 00:51:35,220
coverage here this is the power cast CSI

1219
00:51:39,980 --> 00:51:37,740
edition we're talking to Ben Radford the

1220
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:39,990
book is tracking the chupacabra because

1221
00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:42,210
as Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

1222
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:49,520
[Music]

1223
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:52,180
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1224
00:51:56,430 --> 00:51:54,130
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1225
00:51:58,170 --> 00:51:56,440
favorite programs on GCM I've got good

1226
00:52:00,510 --> 00:51:58,180
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1227
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:00,520
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

1228
00:52:05,010 --> 00:52:03,130
for our dedicated listeners at GC and

1229
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,020
live.com listen to your favorite

1230
00:52:09,210 --> 00:52:07,119
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

1231
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,220
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

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00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:11,440
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yours absolutely free download the

1234
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:15,670
iPhone app today by clicking on the

1235
00:52:20,970 --> 00:52:18,130
banner at GC and live.com again that's

1236
00:52:22,380 --> 00:52:20,980
GCN live.com hi this is Ted Anderson

1237
00:52:24,210 --> 00:52:22,390
have you ever wondered why banks

1238
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:24,220
stockbrokers investment advisors won't

1239
00:52:28,349 --> 00:52:25,990
talk about gold IRAs they've been

1240
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:28,359
available since 1986 yet the financial

1241
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:30,010
industry won't recognize the value of

1242
00:52:33,690 --> 00:52:31,750
gold for your retirement gold has

1243
00:52:35,609 --> 00:52:33,700
outperformed paper investments yet no

1244
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:35,619
word about IRAs if you would like to

1245
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:04,050
[Music]

1246
00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:08,250
we have been Radford the book tracking

1247
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:10,440
the chupacabra or maybe there's nothing

1248
00:53:13,940 --> 00:53:11,970
to track after all

1249
00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:13,950
Chris O'Brien's the co-host some genes

1250
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:16,590
Steinberger in the para cast Chris watch

1251
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,330
pick up on what you started with in our

1252
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:20,640
last segment well yes we were talking

1253
00:53:27,890 --> 00:53:23,930
Jeana ban about the whole I think

1254
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:27,900
erroneous assumption that is made in not

1255
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:29,970
only in chupacabra cases I think in in

1256
00:53:34,580 --> 00:53:32,400
many of them if not most but also in the

1257
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:34,590
cattle mutilation phenomenon you so

1258
00:53:39,380 --> 00:53:37,530
often see the the description drained of

1259
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:39,390
blood you know one of the things that I

1260
00:53:44,270 --> 00:53:42,180
kind of ended up having to do when I

1261
00:53:47,660 --> 00:53:44,280
would be faced with this claim by a

1262
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:47,670
rancher or by the discoverer let's say I

1263
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:50,730
would be a supposedly mutilated cow as I

1264
00:53:54,350 --> 00:53:52,770
just get a big strong my brother a

1265
00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:54,360
couple of friends we flipped the thing

1266
00:53:58,370 --> 00:53:56,760
over and there's all your fluids they

1267
00:54:01,820 --> 00:53:58,380
just come rolling out of the body cavity

1268
00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:01,830
now it's more difficult to determine the

1269
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:04,380
extent of any exaggeration in a small

1270
00:54:09,830 --> 00:54:06,930
animal like a chicken or you know

1271
00:54:13,730 --> 00:54:09,840
especially fowl but in larger animals

1272
00:54:15,620 --> 00:54:13,740
like goats in swine cattle sheep it's

1273
00:54:17,810 --> 00:54:15,630
fairly easy to determine whether the

1274
00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:17,820
animal has been drained and I do applaud

1275
00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:21,060
you ban on pointing out the the problem

1276
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:22,620
that we have in trying to get to the

1277
00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:24,450
bottom of this mystery when this is

1278
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:26,940
constantly being put up as evidence of

1279
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,040
above high strangeness and I personally

1280
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:31,680
know that it's probably not the case so

1281
00:54:36,650 --> 00:54:34,170
I just wanted to point that out and why

1282
00:54:38,900 --> 00:54:36,660
don't you continue no I appreciate that

1283
00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:38,910
and I think I think we're in complete

1284
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:41,190
agreement with that you know when I was

1285
00:54:46,610 --> 00:54:44,010
reading some of the original accounts

1286
00:54:49,610 --> 00:54:46,620
for example in Scott paralysis book

1287
00:54:51,380 --> 00:54:49,620
chupacabras dozens and dozens of times I

1288
00:54:53,390 --> 00:54:51,390
would read the phrase or something like

1289
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:53,400
you know without a drop of blood or

1290
00:54:57,020 --> 00:54:55,410
without any blood at all or had been

1291
00:54:58,250 --> 00:54:57,030
drained of it and I would just read this

1292
00:55:01,160 --> 00:54:58,260
over and over and over and over again

1293
00:55:02,570 --> 00:55:01,170
and I kept waiting for somebody with

1294
00:55:04,490 --> 00:55:02,580
some authority and some medical

1295
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:04,500
authority to say that yes this has had

1296
00:55:10,130 --> 00:55:07,920
in fact been verified and it's the it's

1297
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:10,140
the exact same case with chupacabra

1298
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:13,140
reports in general which is that almost

1299
00:55:17,140 --> 00:55:15,270
invariably nobody bothered to look

1300
00:55:20,019 --> 00:55:17,150
nobody bothered to do an actual

1301
00:55:21,609 --> 00:55:20,029
good in veterinary or necropsy to

1302
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:21,619
determine that there wasn't that blood

1303
00:55:27,279 --> 00:55:23,690
loss in the cases where people did do

1304
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:27,289
that there was no blood loss and so that

1305
00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:29,210
that that's sort of a big part of the

1306
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:32,329
mystery to my mind that has really been

1307
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:36,049
yeah not was widely known as it should

1308
00:55:40,329 --> 00:55:38,240
be that that you know if things are not

1309
00:55:42,519 --> 00:55:40,339
actually legitimately generally drained

1310
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:42,529
of blood then we don't need to look for

1311
00:55:45,730 --> 00:55:44,329
a vampire that has drained the blood out

1312
00:55:47,620 --> 00:55:45,740
of those things because there's no blood

1313
00:55:49,870 --> 00:55:47,630
to worry about so where do we have this

1314
00:55:52,809 --> 00:55:49,880
disconnect where did they take instances

1315
00:55:55,690 --> 00:55:52,819
where there was no drain blood and then

1316
00:55:59,410 --> 00:55:55,700
we add that X Factor to it to my mind

1317
00:56:03,069 --> 00:55:59,420
it's because most people would possibly

1318
00:56:06,250 --> 00:56:03,079
make the connection between the things

1319
00:56:09,099 --> 00:56:06,260
they find and vampirism you have to

1320
00:56:11,170 --> 00:56:09,109
realize that if in many of these these

1321
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:11,180
so-called chupacabra victims they were

1322
00:56:16,660 --> 00:56:14,510
attacked by by canids dogs coyotes foxes

1323
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:16,670
things like that and the way those

1324
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:18,770
animals attack is with a bite to the

1325
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:21,890
neck and and that would typically leave

1326
00:56:24,940 --> 00:56:23,839
two or four depending on how you're

1327
00:56:27,339 --> 00:56:24,950
looking at it

1328
00:56:29,470 --> 00:56:27,349
puncture wounds at the neck and people

1329
00:56:30,730 --> 00:56:29,480
always say well no no yeah this couldn't

1330
00:56:32,289 --> 00:56:30,740
be a dog attack or this couldn't be a

1331
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:32,299
coyote attack because the coyote would

1332
00:56:37,059 --> 00:56:34,640
would eat the whole thing and that's

1333
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:37,069
simply incorrect it's factually wrong I

1334
00:56:42,670 --> 00:56:38,690
did a fair amount of research into

1335
00:56:44,859 --> 00:56:42,680
wildlife predation for primarily dog and

1336
00:56:47,019 --> 00:56:44,869
wolf and and cutting predation and

1337
00:56:49,329 --> 00:56:47,029
that's that's not at all of what happens

1338
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:49,339
on occasion yeah they sometimes they

1339
00:56:54,370 --> 00:56:51,650
just killed for the sake of killing they

1340
00:56:56,109 --> 00:56:54,380
do and and they and they'll bite them on

1341
00:56:59,140 --> 00:56:56,119
the neck and then they'll run away and

1342
00:57:02,260 --> 00:56:59,150
if someone later comes across an animal

1343
00:57:04,059 --> 00:57:02,270
say a goat that's dead and it has two

1344
00:57:06,460 --> 00:57:04,069
puncture marks on the neck but it's

1345
00:57:08,829 --> 00:57:06,470
otherwise you know there's no other sign

1346
00:57:11,470 --> 00:57:08,839
of blood or no no there's no sign of

1347
00:57:13,450 --> 00:57:11,480
death it's just this animal is dead the

1348
00:57:15,579 --> 00:57:13,460
only thing that I can see is two two you

1349
00:57:17,890 --> 00:57:15,589
know two bite marks on the neck then

1350
00:57:19,779 --> 00:57:17,900
it's not an illogical sort of leap

1351
00:57:21,370 --> 00:57:19,789
actually it is a logically but

1352
00:57:23,620 --> 00:57:21,380
unfortunately it's a common leap to say

1353
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:23,630
well maybe it was attacked by a vampire

1354
00:57:27,579 --> 00:57:25,609
and so I think that's where a lot of

1355
00:57:28,970 --> 00:57:27,589
people make that connection are we too

1356
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:28,980
obsessed with vampires

1357
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:32,400
we have vampires on TV constant

1358
00:57:37,130 --> 00:57:34,530
reference to vampires these days I think

1359
00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:37,140
more than the days we had Dracula movies

1360
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:39,720
is that part of why we get this kind of

1361
00:57:44,810 --> 00:57:42,480
story I think that's part of it I mean

1362
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:44,820
in my in my research I actually trace

1363
00:57:50,859 --> 00:57:48,810
the vampire mythos back to you know you

1364
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:50,869
look at the you're the European vampires

1365
00:57:54,980 --> 00:57:53,400
and I think there's a pretty strong

1366
00:57:56,660 --> 00:57:54,990
connection I make that connect I make

1367
00:57:58,940 --> 00:57:56,670
that argument in the book that you can

1368
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:58,950
draw a pretty good pretty strong line

1369
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:00,720
between the European vampires and let's

1370
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:04,050
say 17 1800s to the chupacabra and I

1371
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:06,690
also go into African vampires and Latin

1372
00:58:11,450 --> 00:58:08,850
American vampires as well and so to my

1373
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,460
mind that the chupacabra in a real way

1374
00:58:15,830 --> 00:58:13,920
is just sort of updated version of the

1375
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,840
European vampire and there's some

1376
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:17,520
there's some more interesting parallels

1377
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:18,570
I don't know how in-depth you want to

1378
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:20,010
get into it but there's there's some

1379
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,810
interesting parallels there so we have

1380
00:58:27,620 --> 00:58:24,000
something here that suddenly it springs

1381
00:58:29,330 --> 00:58:27,630
upon us a chupacabra and all-new there's

1382
00:58:32,540 --> 00:58:29,340
nothing that you can find in folklore

1383
00:58:33,830 --> 00:58:32,550
anywhere about a similar creature is

1384
00:58:37,340 --> 00:58:33,840
that your testimony sir

1385
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:37,350
that's not quite right it depends on how

1386
00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:38,720
you're defining it I mean certainly

1387
00:58:43,609 --> 00:58:42,300
because because the vampire motif is

1388
00:58:45,290 --> 00:58:43,619
universal

1389
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,300
you know cultures all over the world and

1390
00:58:49,220 --> 00:58:47,520
for foredeck for you know centuries and

1391
00:58:51,020 --> 00:58:49,230
millennia have stories about vampires

1392
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:51,030
the ancient Greeks had stories about

1393
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:51,570
vampires

1394
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:55,200
so the vampire idea is not new

1395
00:58:58,400 --> 00:58:57,810
what I am arguing is that as far as I

1396
00:59:01,970 --> 00:58:58,410
can tell

1397
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:01,980
prior to 1995 there was no blood sucking

1398
00:59:07,580 --> 00:59:05,160
beast called the chupacabra in Puerto

1399
00:59:09,470 --> 00:59:07,590
Rico or anywhere else and you've you've

1400
00:59:11,780 --> 00:59:09,480
actually offered a reward for any

1401
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:11,790
earlier cases if memory serves me

1402
00:59:16,550 --> 00:59:14,130
correct you you're actually actively

1403
00:59:18,590 --> 00:59:16,560
trying to find some cases that predate

1404
00:59:21,830 --> 00:59:18,600
that 95 date that's exactly right

1405
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:21,840
because in the last few weeks since my

1406
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:23,490
book has been out and I've had I've been

1407
00:59:28,220 --> 00:59:25,710
contacted by a dozen or so people who

1408
00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:28,230
have told me that I don't know what I'm

1409
00:59:32,090 --> 00:59:29,790
talking about and then the bait they

1410
00:59:34,730 --> 00:59:32,100
specifically personally remember hearing

1411
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:34,740
about the chupacabra in the 50s 60s 70s

1412
00:59:40,190 --> 00:59:37,619
and 80s in Texas and New Mexico and I

1413
00:59:41,660 --> 00:59:40,200
reckon elsewhere it's possible but all I

1414
00:59:43,460 --> 00:59:41,670
can tell you is that the

1415
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:43,470
I couldn't find any any previous

1416
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:46,049
references to the chupacabra before that

1417
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:50,400
before 1995 and and if someone can find

1418
00:59:54,530 --> 00:59:51,690
a published reference to the word

1419
00:59:55,819 --> 00:59:54,540
chupacabra meaning a vampire beast not

1420
00:59:58,520 --> 00:59:55,829
something else because there actually

1421
01:00:00,410 --> 00:59:58,530
was a chupacabra that referred to a bird

1422
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:00,420
that supposedly suck the milk out of

1423
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:02,730
goats but not blood and not a vampire

1424
01:00:07,250 --> 01:00:04,980
piece so yeah I'm offering a 250 dollar

1425
01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:07,260
reward plus the sign copy my book okay

1426
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:08,940
two hundred fifty dollars this is not

1427
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:23,750
oh come on Ben pony it up man I'll start

1428
01:00:33,170 --> 01:00:30,450
looking for you it's not well let's

1429
01:00:36,829 --> 01:00:33,180
let's digress real quick and and look at

1430
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,839
how the term Chupacabra was was kind of

1431
01:00:41,359 --> 01:00:38,880
inadvertently and almost in a comedic

1432
01:00:43,490 --> 01:00:41,369
way literally applied to this particular

1433
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:43,500
phenomenon this story is very

1434
01:00:47,539 --> 01:00:45,210
interesting wasn't it some Puerto Rican

1435
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:47,549
comedian I think they kind of coined the

1436
01:00:51,260 --> 01:00:49,410
term and it's stuck and and there were

1437
01:00:53,930 --> 01:00:51,270
songs written and in other pop culture

1438
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:53,940
yeah stuff they kind of propelled the

1439
01:01:00,289 --> 01:00:57,200
whole of the whole thing along yeah

1440
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:00,299
Loren Coleman did some research and dug

1441
01:01:05,630 --> 01:01:03,450
up a reference to a chupacabra on the TV

1442
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:05,640
show bonanza in 1960 but again that

1443
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:07,530
refers specifically to it to a bird and

1444
01:01:11,809 --> 01:01:10,260
not to any sort of vampiric beast the

1445
01:01:14,750 --> 01:01:11,819
first reference that I've been able to

1446
01:01:16,130 --> 01:01:14,760
find is to the chupacabra there's

1447
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:16,140
actually two people that I know for

1448
01:01:20,180 --> 01:01:18,450
certain that claim to acquainted the

1449
01:01:23,870 --> 01:01:20,190
most famous one is a man named Silvio

1450
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:23,880
Perez who is who is who was and I think

1451
01:01:30,289 --> 01:01:28,079
still is a popular radio entertainer in

1452
01:01:32,660 --> 01:01:30,299
in Puerto Rico and my understanding is

1453
01:01:37,099 --> 01:01:32,670
that he claimed that he coined the word

1454
01:01:40,569 --> 01:01:37,109
chupacabra in 95 shortly after the some

1455
01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:40,579
of the first animal deaths became public

1456
01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:43,140
and at that point it became a joke I

1457
01:01:47,660 --> 01:01:45,569
mean it was you know he was he meant it

1458
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:47,670
as a joke it wasn't oh my god you should

1459
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:49,530
be scared it's like hey here's a

1460
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:51,720
chupacabra goatsucker blah blah blah

1461
01:01:56,170 --> 01:01:53,570
and yeah it

1462
01:01:59,200 --> 01:01:56,180
suddenly spun off into your t-shirts and

1463
01:02:02,160 --> 01:01:59,210
hats and songs and and little Chupacabra

1464
01:02:04,930 --> 01:02:02,170
you know chachki and figurines and no

1465
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,940
t-shirts and you name it so it quickly

1466
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:07,280
but the Puerto Ricans themselves quickly

1467
01:02:11,410 --> 01:02:09,170
embraced the chupacabra many of them

1468
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:11,420
feared it I mean there was a there was

1469
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:14,000
and still is a real belief in chupacabra

1470
01:02:18,250 --> 01:02:16,160
among many Puerto Ricans but many other

1471
01:02:20,590 --> 01:02:18,260
Puerto Ricans just saw it sort of as

1472
01:02:23,050 --> 01:02:20,600
kind of a joke there's their their local

1473
01:02:25,030 --> 01:02:23,060
version of Bigfoot so it's all for

1474
01:02:26,740 --> 01:02:25,040
entertainment and we'll make some more

1475
01:02:29,140 --> 01:02:26,750
movies about it because for heaven's

1476
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:29,150
sake the movie industry is suffering now

1477
01:02:33,790 --> 01:02:32,330
maybe we need a good chupacabra film to

1478
01:02:36,130 --> 01:02:33,800
kind of straighten things out get the

1479
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:36,140
box office revenues up we have Benjamin

1480
01:02:40,540 --> 01:02:37,910
Radford the book is tracking the

1481
01:02:46,050 --> 01:02:40,550
chupacabra because as Chris O'Brien I'm

1482
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:48,810
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your fate awaits dr. David berry has

1509
01:03:55,540 --> 01:03:53,270
provided excellent advice for all those

1510
01:03:58,180 --> 01:03:55,550
interested in practical economics and

1511
01:03:59,950 --> 01:03:58,190
sound money it's certainly worth reading

1512
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that's what congressman Ron Paul said

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about cha-ching wisdom 123 practical

1514
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universal truths about money

1515
01:04:08,249 --> 01:04:04,569
the

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01:04:10,259 --> 01:04:08,259
book certainly it'll speak to you

1517
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personally your life your lifestyle your

1518
01:04:14,219 --> 01:04:11,829
your money your investments but it also

1519
01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:14,229
can be generalized into the nation

1520
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:15,729
what's going on as a nation we do these

1521
01:04:17,909 --> 01:04:17,410
same things personally that we do as a

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nation

1523
01:04:21,179 --> 01:04:19,809
dr. Berry's book chicheng wisdom

1524
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presents many facets of your

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relationship with the once almighty

1526
01:04:25,259 --> 01:04:23,799
dollar

1527
01:04:27,509 --> 01:04:25,269
and how current national and

1528
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international politics affect your daily

1529
01:04:31,409 --> 01:04:29,199
life some of the other things are about

1530
01:04:33,209 --> 01:04:31,419
that they're not just economic their

1531
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:33,219
philosophical there's psychology

1532
01:04:36,749 --> 01:04:34,689
involved in this book there's philosophy

1533
01:04:39,870 --> 01:04:36,759
and wellness book read touching wisdom

1534
01:04:44,370 --> 01:04:39,880
by dr. David berry only 995 available at

1535
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chi-ching wisdom calm that CH a CH I ng

1536
01:04:51,809 --> 01:04:49,900
wisdom calm cha-ching wisdom calm hello

1537
01:04:54,179 --> 01:04:51,819
again I'm back this is John Swenson at

1538
01:04:56,249 --> 01:04:54,189
mitos resources and I want to address a

1539
01:04:57,959 --> 01:04:56,259
couple of issues that I hear about daily

1540
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:57,969
and we're talking about gold and silver

1541
01:05:02,669 --> 01:05:00,160
first is there anything to suggest that

1542
01:05:05,159 --> 01:05:02,679
sunny skies are just ahead we continue

1543
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:05,169
to print fiat dollars inflation worsens

1544
01:05:09,390 --> 01:05:07,359
there's civil unrest around the world

1545
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:09,400
and the demand for gold and silver has

1546
01:05:13,799 --> 01:05:11,890
never ever been higher next if you heard

1547
01:05:14,579 --> 01:05:13,809
that possessing metals is a complicated

1548
01:05:16,229 --> 01:05:14,589
process

1549
01:05:18,689 --> 01:05:16,239
I assure you that whether we're

1550
01:05:20,189 --> 01:05:18,699
discussing a direct purchase or an IRA

1551
01:05:22,859 --> 01:05:20,199
rollover this is a simple

1552
01:05:25,140 --> 01:05:22,869
straightforward transaction this is all

1553
01:05:27,870 --> 01:05:25,150
about protecting your assets and frankly

1554
01:05:30,359 --> 01:05:27,880
what are your options stock market real

1555
01:05:35,819 --> 01:05:30,369
estate metal certificates I don't think

1556
01:05:38,969 --> 01:05:35,829
so please call 866 2 2 3 7 extension 1

1557
01:05:49,330 --> 01:05:38,979
to 8 I promise a casual conversation no

1558
01:05:49,340 --> 01:06:03,439
[Music]

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1579
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talk radio starts here if you have a

1580
01:07:11,579 --> 01:07:08,770
comment or question about the pair cast

1581
01:07:14,910 --> 01:07:11,589
sent it to news at the para cast com

1582
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:14,920
that's news at the podcast comm and if

1583
01:07:18,270 --> 01:07:16,960
you want to catch up on past episodes we

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have hundreds of shows for you to

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download direct from the para cast com

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that's the para cast comm or check us

1587
01:07:31,559 --> 01:07:29,829
out on iTunes that's the chupacabra

1588
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:31,569
ladies and gentlemen you just heard him

1589
01:07:40,170 --> 01:07:34,480
I'm the para cast he's taken over the

1590
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:40,180
body of Chris O'Brien or co-host he

1591
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:43,410
would not they Jewpacabra know you

1592
01:07:47,819 --> 01:07:45,760
decided what you sound like but it's not

1593
01:07:49,950 --> 01:07:47,829
Chupacabra we'll have to see what the

1594
01:07:51,510 --> 01:07:49,960
Gary Oldman will play that role you know

1595
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:51,520
when he gives up on Batman you know the

1596
01:07:55,530 --> 01:07:53,920
Dark Knight Rises you know and he has to

1597
01:07:57,450 --> 01:07:55,540
give up being Commissioner Gordon he can

1598
01:08:00,180 --> 01:07:57,460
play a chupacabra for everybody the book

1599
01:08:01,799 --> 01:08:00,190
is tracking the chupacabra with Benjamin

1600
01:08:04,410 --> 01:08:01,809
Radford Chris why'd you pick up on the

1601
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:04,420
discussion yeah this is a real

1602
01:08:08,430 --> 01:08:05,920
fascinating subject to me because I

1603
01:08:10,410 --> 01:08:08,440
think we're dealing with a number of

1604
01:08:12,510 --> 01:08:10,420
issues that we've we've been kind of

1605
01:08:15,299 --> 01:08:12,520
playing around with here and that is the

1606
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:15,309
very belief in a mystery such as this

1607
01:08:20,579 --> 01:08:18,850
can grow its own legs and literally they

1608
01:08:23,130 --> 01:08:20,589
have a life of its own once it gets

1609
01:08:26,099 --> 01:08:23,140
loose into the culture and and the whole

1610
01:08:29,070 --> 01:08:26,109
idea of belief in something I feel it

1611
01:08:31,380 --> 01:08:29,080
has a lot more strength and power than

1612
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:31,390
your average sociologist would would

1613
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:35,410
agree to and I even have a sense that if

1614
01:08:40,110 --> 01:08:37,810
enough people believe fervently in

1615
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:40,120
something that there is a possibility

1616
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,440
that the culture itself or the

1617
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:43,440
subculture can actually manifest

1618
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:46,210
phenomena that conform to that belief

1619
01:08:50,910 --> 01:08:48,370
and it becomes a self-perpetuating meme

1620
01:08:52,709 --> 01:08:50,920
in the culture and and I think this is a

1621
01:08:54,959 --> 01:08:52,719
classic example I'm probably one of the

1622
01:08:57,809 --> 01:08:54,969
better textbook illustrations of this

1623
01:08:59,370 --> 01:08:57,819
again I'm not saying I'm not saying that

1624
01:09:01,499 --> 01:08:59,380
there's not something at the core of

1625
01:09:03,539 --> 01:09:01,509
this I in fact I do have

1626
01:09:06,599 --> 01:09:03,549
a sense that there is but I think it's

1627
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:06,609
all the interesting sort of subtext that

1628
01:09:10,859 --> 01:09:09,130
you have to kind of Wade through in in

1629
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:10,869
an effort to investigate this properly

1630
01:09:14,970 --> 01:09:13,329
and get to the core of this like like

1631
01:09:17,490 --> 01:09:14,980
you've done been and I must have you

1632
01:09:19,019 --> 01:09:17,500
know applaud you on the very methodical

1633
01:09:22,140 --> 01:09:19,029
way that you have approached the subject

1634
01:09:24,419 --> 01:09:22,150
now I've known Scott Collis for a number

1635
01:09:27,689 --> 01:09:24,429
of years I do feel that he's doing a

1636
01:09:29,759 --> 01:09:27,699
great job covering the media portion of

1637
01:09:31,589 --> 01:09:29,769
the UFO phenomenon down in in Latin

1638
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:31,599
America he is connected with a lot of

1639
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:33,279
investigators down there what are your

1640
01:09:37,499 --> 01:09:36,130
observations about his book chupacabras

1641
01:09:40,140 --> 01:09:37,509
and other mysteries which for a long

1642
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:40,150
time was really the only extensive work

1643
01:09:43,979 --> 01:09:42,130
that we had on the subject I mean you

1644
01:09:46,319 --> 01:09:43,989
know how professional a job did he do in

1645
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:46,329
your in your estimation interviewing

1646
01:09:50,220 --> 01:09:48,880
witnesses and trying to avoid that that

1647
01:09:54,649 --> 01:09:50,230
problem that you have with mainstream

1648
01:09:57,779 --> 01:09:54,659
media in sensationalizing the subject

1649
01:09:59,609 --> 01:09:57,789
mr. Corrales I appreciate some of the

1650
01:10:01,859 --> 01:09:59,619
work he's done I think he's done a real

1651
01:10:04,589 --> 01:10:01,869
service to to the cryptozoological

1652
01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:04,599
community and the paranormal community

1653
01:10:08,490 --> 01:10:06,429
in general for a number of things one of

1654
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:08,500
them is helping to make available

1655
01:10:12,799 --> 01:10:10,570
spanish-language material certainly

1656
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:12,809
original source materials for

1657
01:10:17,729 --> 01:10:15,610
non-spanish speakers that is a task that

1658
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:17,739
is often thankless and that's something

1659
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:19,210
he's done a very good job of and I

1660
01:10:23,970 --> 01:10:21,730
congratulate him on that and that is a

1661
01:10:27,419 --> 01:10:23,980
real service and I think that's useful

1662
01:10:30,450 --> 01:10:27,429
my problem with with him is that I have

1663
01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:30,460
found that he often times doesn't inject

1664
01:10:35,759 --> 01:10:33,190
as much commentary into what he's

1665
01:10:37,620 --> 01:10:35,769
reporting as he should for somebody who

1666
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:37,630
is as knowledgeable about the chupacabra

1667
01:10:42,569 --> 01:10:40,570
or chupacabra says he prefers an S at

1668
01:10:44,970 --> 01:10:42,579
the end but I'm not going to use it that

1669
01:10:48,209 --> 01:10:44,980
you know there was times when I read his

1670
01:10:50,939 --> 01:10:48,219
reports and his translations and they're

1671
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:50,949
so they're clearly self contradictions

1672
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:53,050
inherent in this and you know and I

1673
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:54,610
can't believe that he doesn't recognize

1674
01:10:59,250 --> 01:10:56,650
that some of the things he's saying just

1675
01:11:02,399 --> 01:10:59,260
simply cannot be true or or there are

1676
01:11:04,620 --> 01:11:02,409
certainly merit commentary I used his

1677
01:11:06,540 --> 01:11:04,630
book quite a bit and as you pointed out

1678
01:11:09,450 --> 01:11:06,550
for you know ten years or whatever it

1679
01:11:11,879 --> 01:11:09,460
was basically the only serious work on

1680
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:11,889
the chupacabra and it's useful certainly

1681
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:12,730
in that regard

1682
01:11:18,210 --> 01:11:14,890
but I found it to be far too gullible

1683
01:11:21,060 --> 01:11:18,220
for my taste it's just the you know his

1684
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:21,070
his his reporting is is its it's useful

1685
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:23,230
for as far as it goes but I kept waiting

1686
01:11:27,090 --> 01:11:25,300
for him to sort of say well of course as

1687
01:11:29,729 --> 01:11:27,100
we know this can't be true because XY

1688
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:29,739
and Z you know I'm not saying that he

1689
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:32,410
himself is gullible necessarily but that

1690
01:11:36,510 --> 01:11:34,480
I felt that some of his reporting needed

1691
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:36,520
to have a little more skepticism and and

1692
01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:38,770
sort of critical thinking behind it so I

1693
01:11:42,570 --> 01:11:40,510
actually tried to interview him several

1694
01:11:44,220 --> 01:11:42,580
times for the Chupacabra book and you

1695
01:11:46,620 --> 01:11:44,230
know I I had a series of questions I

1696
01:11:49,229 --> 01:11:46,630
interviewed loren coleman and and john

1697
01:11:50,850 --> 01:11:49,239
downs and karl shuker and others and i

1698
01:11:52,710 --> 01:11:50,860
really wanted to have Scott's input on

1699
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:52,720
it because other than me he probably

1700
01:11:55,950 --> 01:11:54,130
knows more about the chupacabra than

1701
01:11:58,979 --> 01:11:55,960
anyone else live with all due respect

1702
01:12:01,170 --> 01:11:58,989
yeah but he refused he he said that he

1703
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:01,180
didn't want to do it in fact he made

1704
01:12:04,860 --> 01:12:02,530
some commenters that were called to

1705
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:04,870
Loren something about how he didn't want

1706
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:07,120
to know think of wallowing with pigs or

1707
01:12:10,530 --> 01:12:08,560
something he made some sort of comment

1708
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:10,540
about how he felt that the answering my

1709
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:12,010
questions were participating the book

1710
01:12:17,729 --> 01:12:14,410
would somehow demean him would see at

1711
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:17,739
all because I Scott doesn't come off

1712
01:12:22,050 --> 01:12:19,810
real well in the book but it's not it's

1713
01:12:23,850 --> 01:12:22,060
not out of any antagonism but he just

1714
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:23,860
didn't he didn't answer questions and he

1715
01:12:28,710 --> 01:12:26,290
I would have I wouldn't love to have his

1716
01:12:30,210 --> 01:12:28,720
more of his input in the book and and if

1717
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:30,220
I do if the book goes into ascetic

1718
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:33,130
second printing I would welcome his his

1719
01:12:37,140 --> 01:12:34,930
input and I would treat him fairly and

1720
01:12:38,910 --> 01:12:37,150
I'd like to have him be part of it but

1721
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:38,920
you know again I can't I can't force him

1722
01:12:44,340 --> 01:12:41,770
to to be part of it so well you know

1723
01:12:46,020 --> 01:12:44,350
again I I kind of agree with you on that

1724
01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:46,030
case and in fact this is this is

1725
01:12:51,540 --> 01:12:49,450
something that I've actually found have

1726
01:12:53,610 --> 01:12:51,550
any answer to from people who have

1727
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:53,620
looked at my work and said that you're

1728
01:12:58,620 --> 01:12:56,410
just too factual in terms of trying to

1729
01:13:01,740 --> 01:12:58,630
to convey the information that was given

1730
01:13:04,380 --> 01:13:01,750
to you and you you're unwilling to put

1731
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:04,390
your neck out and state whether you you

1732
01:13:10,410 --> 01:13:06,880
think that this is BS or this is no real

1733
01:13:11,850 --> 01:13:10,420
or whatever and and and I do tend to

1734
01:13:14,550 --> 01:13:11,860
take a journalistic approach in some

1735
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:14,560
subjects but in Scotts case I think he

1736
01:13:19,860 --> 01:13:17,890
did a good job of assembling quite a

1737
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:19,870
number of very interesting cases that I

1738
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:22,450
I feel some of them definitely had merit

1739
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:25,120
and the law enforcement case for

1740
01:13:30,050 --> 01:13:27,210
instance and the

1741
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:30,060
one of the elements that that I feel may

1742
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:32,370
be important is the the sulfur smell

1743
01:13:38,030 --> 01:13:35,130
that's been associated with some of

1744
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,040
these cases in Puerto Rico and in Chile

1745
01:13:42,650 --> 01:13:40,080
and in other places there are certain

1746
01:13:45,470 --> 01:13:42,660
elements I think need to be investigated

1747
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:45,480
more fully and you know hopefully if

1748
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:47,610
Scott does continue working in this

1749
01:13:53,300 --> 01:13:50,850
particular realm on this mystery that he

1750
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:53,310
he dives in a little bit more and and is

1751
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:55,800
willing to put his put his opinion out

1752
01:14:02,950 --> 01:13:58,290
there and and take your suggestion to

1753
01:14:06,380 --> 01:14:02,960
heart I think it would be good yeah

1754
01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:06,390
we're all on the same page here you know

1755
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,000
I'm you know certainly probably more of

1756
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:11,280
a skeptic than you two are in most of

1757
01:14:14,900 --> 01:14:13,050
your audiences but ultimately the way I

1758
01:14:16,490 --> 01:14:14,910
see it is that we're all trying to find

1759
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:16,500
the answer we're all trying to

1760
01:14:21,890 --> 01:14:18,930
understand the truth here and you know I

1761
01:14:24,380 --> 01:14:21,900
I don't have any access to grind on this

1762
01:14:26,450 --> 01:14:24,390
i'm you know i i'm not i'm not getting

1763
01:14:29,300 --> 01:14:26,460
paid more or less i'm getting paid much

1764
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:29,310
at all in either event but i I don't I

1765
01:14:32,930 --> 01:14:30,810
personally don't have a stake in whether

1766
01:14:35,390 --> 01:14:32,940
the chupacabras real or not I don't care

1767
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:35,400
I I want to find the answer to the

1768
01:14:39,020 --> 01:14:37,050
mystery I want to try and solve the

1769
01:14:41,390 --> 01:14:39,030
mystery as best I can and if the answer

1770
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:41,400
turns out to be that you know for

1771
01:14:45,050 --> 01:14:42,810
example at one point I went to the

1772
01:14:47,330 --> 01:14:45,060
jungles Nicaragua and I did an

1773
01:14:49,490 --> 01:14:47,340
expedition there if I had found some

1774
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:49,500
unusual chupacabra light creature I

1775
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:51,090
would be the first person to say that

1776
01:14:55,190 --> 01:14:53,130
I'm not gonna you know cover it up or

1777
01:14:57,890 --> 01:14:55,200
try and hide it because it it refutes my

1778
01:14:59,570 --> 01:14:57,900
thesis I mean I don't care if the ovens

1779
01:15:01,970 --> 01:14:59,580
are there the evidence is there and I

1780
01:15:03,290 --> 01:15:01,980
think that sort of getting back to the

1781
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:03,300
Scott issue I think that there's this

1782
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:05,489
thing between an investigator and

1783
01:15:11,229 --> 01:15:07,890
reporter and I also see this a lot of

1784
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:11,239
times in ghost and ghost cases where

1785
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:14,489
some of the I also see this a lot of

1786
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:17,489
times in ghost investigations where for

1787
01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:20,330
example some books by Jeff Conger who

1788
01:15:25,070 --> 01:15:23,070
does the ghost village comm website and

1789
01:15:26,810 --> 01:15:25,080
stuff in some of his books

1790
01:15:28,459 --> 01:15:26,820
most of the ghost books out there

1791
01:15:30,890 --> 01:15:28,469
they're just they're just repeating

1792
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:30,900
ghost stories and we'll get to repeating

1793
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:32,610
ghost stories and the quality of

1794
01:15:36,530 --> 01:15:34,170
investigations in a moment

1795
01:15:39,310 --> 01:15:36,540
we have Benjamin Radford the book is

1796
01:15:41,709 --> 01:15:39,320
tracking the chupacabra available now

1797
01:15:51,459 --> 01:15:41,719
Brian's the co-host I'm gene Steinberger

1798
01:15:53,500 --> 01:15:51,469
in the para cast Ray Perkins a reclusive

1799
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:53,510
veteran burned out from the Gulf War

1800
01:15:59,140 --> 01:15:56,690
lives tortured by relentless perplexing

1801
01:16:01,330 --> 01:15:59,150
nightmares nightmares of a horrific

1802
01:16:03,339 --> 01:16:01,340
battle in deep space and of a mysterious

1803
01:16:06,189 --> 01:16:03,349
woman suffering an agony for her

1804
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:06,199
devastated world a woman not yet born

1805
01:16:13,810 --> 01:16:11,170
calling across centuries to him then a

1806
01:16:17,140 --> 01:16:13,820
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1807
01:16:19,660 --> 01:16:17,150
chance to alter the universe attack of

1808
01:16:21,550 --> 01:16:19,670
the rock the former fiction editor for

1809
01:16:23,859 --> 01:16:21,560
Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

1810
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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

1811
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attack of the Rockettes lies in its

1812
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1814
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1846
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1848
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1850
01:18:02,979 --> 01:18:01,670
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1851
01:18:05,229 --> 01:18:02,989
in the collapse of our governments and

1852
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1853
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1864
01:18:31,899 --> 01:18:29,659
for two people costs a fraction of what

1865
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you pay at the grocery store for a free

1866
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1867
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1868
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three two - OH - or visit Ready Reserve

1869
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foods Calm Ready Reserve foods making

1870
01:18:52,930 --> 01:18:50,750
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1871
01:18:54,850 --> 01:18:52,940
mark Craig head founder of crossbreed

1872
01:18:57,370 --> 01:18:54,860
holsters I designed our top-selling

1873
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1874
01:19:01,840 --> 01:18:59,570
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1875
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gouged while carrying concealed the

1876
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super tuck deluxe is the most

1877
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comfortable most concealable holster on

1878
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1879
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1880
01:19:18,010 --> 01:19:13,250
us at crossbreed holsters dot-com

1881
01:19:20,110 --> 01:19:18,020
don't forget crossbreed holsters dot-com

1882
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:20,120
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

1883
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:21,650
wondered why banks stock brokers

1884
01:19:25,140 --> 01:19:23,210
investment advisors won't talk about

1885
01:19:27,700 --> 01:19:25,150
gold IRAs they've been available since

1886
01:19:29,500 --> 01:19:27,710
1986 yet the financial industry won't

1887
01:19:31,419 --> 01:19:29,510
recognize the value of gold for your

1888
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:31,429
retirement goal has outperformed paper

1889
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:33,650
investments yet no word about IRAs

1890
01:19:39,189 --> 01:19:35,330
if you would like to have gold for your

1891
01:19:40,870 --> 01:19:39,199
retirement call 866 - 237 don't get left

1892
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:40,880
behind by rising inflation and low

1893
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:01,910
we are the gcn radio network hi this is

1894
01:20:11,150 --> 01:20:04,560
ted phillips listening to the parrot cat

1895
01:20:15,140 --> 01:20:11,160
and it's just you see that time he

1896
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:15,150
didn't sound like a ghost it's a spooky

1897
01:20:20,090 --> 01:20:18,090
voice you do each time actually we have

1898
01:20:25,150 --> 01:20:20,100
a recording here and what we do is we

1899
01:20:32,690 --> 01:20:28,690
there's only one person here it's me

1900
01:20:35,180 --> 01:20:32,700
that was talking about tracking the

1901
01:20:37,310 --> 01:20:35,190
chupacabra is that real fantasy or

1902
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:37,320
somewhere in between and the guest is

1903
01:20:41,090 --> 01:20:39,120
Benjamin Radford the co-host is Chris

1904
01:20:42,650 --> 01:20:41,100
O'Brien I'm gene steinberger in the para

1905
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:42,660
cast but that would be very serious for

1906
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,490
a moment okay and we have questions by

1907
01:20:47,690 --> 01:20:46,080
the way from our audience coming up

1908
01:20:49,460 --> 01:20:47,700
shortly so we're talking about the

1909
01:20:51,020 --> 01:20:49,470
scholarship here where a lot of the

1910
01:20:53,330 --> 01:20:51,030
people who write books they just collect

1911
01:20:56,180 --> 01:20:53,340
stories they're not really investigating

1912
01:20:58,250 --> 01:20:56,190
anything or trying to determine fact

1913
01:21:00,410 --> 01:20:58,260
from fiction all they care about is

1914
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:00,420
collecting stories and writing a fun

1915
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:02,820
entertaining book is that what you're

1916
01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:05,250
suggesting yeah I found that over and

1917
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:07,980
over again in the last you know 10 or 15

1918
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:10,140
years I don't want to suggest that there

1919
01:21:13,060 --> 01:21:11,850
is not good investigation out there

1920
01:21:16,370 --> 01:21:13,070
because there is a good investigation

1921
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:16,380
but I would say it's probably less than

1922
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:19,290
5 or 10% of the the literature that's

1923
01:21:23,300 --> 01:21:20,970
out there you know for every for a

1924
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:23,310
magazine article or book that you see

1925
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:25,530
written on the subject of the paranormal

1926
01:21:29,930 --> 01:21:27,600
whether it's ghosts or chupacabras or

1927
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:29,940
psychics or to have you the vast

1928
01:21:35,090 --> 01:21:32,370
majority of it is just sort of rehashed

1929
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:35,100
off and plagiarized information and and

1930
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:36,570
there's very few people that are

1931
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:38,610
actually making a sincere effort to do

1932
01:21:41,810 --> 01:21:40,080
investigations and that's one reason

1933
01:21:43,910 --> 01:21:41,820
that i think chris is doing some good

1934
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:43,920
work i think he night there's a lot of

1935
01:21:47,780 --> 01:21:46,050
points where he and I would disagree but

1936
01:21:49,550 --> 01:21:47,790
I I've read some of this stuff and I

1937
01:21:50,810 --> 01:21:49,560
think that you know that there's some

1938
01:21:52,610 --> 01:21:50,820
there's some good investigation there

1939
01:21:55,310 --> 01:21:52,620
Wow thank you coming from you that's

1940
01:21:58,850 --> 01:21:55,320
quite a compliment I you know I do take

1941
01:22:01,610 --> 01:21:58,860
a bit of heat on the para cast forums

1942
01:22:05,330 --> 01:22:01,620
for by some of our more skeptical

1943
01:22:07,770 --> 01:22:05,340
posters for what they claim is my lack

1944
01:22:09,930 --> 01:22:07,780
of critical thinking that I'm

1945
01:22:11,279 --> 01:22:09,940
gullible that I'll believe any anything

1946
01:22:13,919 --> 01:22:11,289
that comes down the pike and and

1947
01:22:17,010 --> 01:22:13,929
actually could it's quite the reverse I

1948
01:22:19,260 --> 01:22:17,020
I actually started out as a reporter

1949
01:22:21,870 --> 01:22:19,270
trying to get to the bottom and explain

1950
01:22:23,729 --> 01:22:21,880
away some UFO sightings is how he

1951
01:22:25,919 --> 01:22:23,739
actually got involved in all this so

1952
01:22:27,959 --> 01:22:25,929
mmm-hmm you know you have to kind of

1953
01:22:30,209 --> 01:22:27,969
look at people's motivations I think in

1954
01:22:31,859 --> 01:22:30,219
this field as you're pointing out there

1955
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:31,869
is quite a bit of mystery mongering

1956
01:22:35,819 --> 01:22:33,280
going on I think that would be a good

1957
01:22:38,939 --> 01:22:35,829
term for it I do think that we do have a

1958
01:22:42,959 --> 01:22:38,949
a serious lack of critical thinking out

1959
01:22:45,330 --> 01:22:42,969
there unfortunately but what we need is

1960
01:22:48,330 --> 01:22:45,340
really the powers of diagnostic science

1961
01:22:49,919 --> 01:22:48,340
in terms of the Chupacabra soror for

1962
01:22:51,810 --> 01:22:49,929
instance Academy relation phenomenon we

1963
01:22:54,089 --> 01:22:51,820
need veterinary pathologists involved we

1964
01:22:55,589 --> 01:22:54,099
need diagnostic labs involved we need

1965
01:22:58,620 --> 01:22:55,599
proper crime-scene investigative

1966
01:23:02,459 --> 01:22:58,630
techniques and procedures to be adhered

1967
01:23:04,859 --> 01:23:02,469
to there needs to be a really solid set

1968
01:23:06,810 --> 01:23:04,869
of protocols in place for proper

1969
01:23:09,330 --> 01:23:06,820
investigation because then people like

1970
01:23:11,729 --> 01:23:09,340
you wouldn't be able to look at it and

1971
01:23:13,620 --> 01:23:11,739
and look at the data that's gathered and

1972
01:23:15,629 --> 01:23:13,630
and just simply toss it aside if there's

1973
01:23:17,129 --> 01:23:15,639
something real there I think you're

1974
01:23:20,189 --> 01:23:17,139
open-minded enough and that you would

1975
01:23:22,649 --> 01:23:20,199
you would be able to critically look at

1976
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:22,659
data and and if there was something

1977
01:23:25,589 --> 01:23:24,489
there that that suggested something I

1978
01:23:28,290 --> 01:23:25,599
strange I think you'd be the first

1979
01:23:30,839 --> 01:23:28,300
person to admit that but you get to that

1980
01:23:35,370 --> 01:23:30,849
place we were spinning our wheels well

1981
01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:35,380
yeah a long time in fact my previous

1982
01:23:39,089 --> 01:23:37,360
book is called scientific Criminal

1983
01:23:41,490 --> 01:23:39,099
Investigation how to solve unexplained

1984
01:23:44,370 --> 01:23:41,500
mysteries and in that book I lay out

1985
01:23:46,890 --> 01:23:44,380
what I think are and what other put many

1986
01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:46,900
even many believers have have said are

1987
01:23:51,689 --> 01:23:50,409
very good you know basing guidelines for

1988
01:23:53,250 --> 01:23:51,699
doing these and these sorts

1989
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:53,260
investigations and doing it from a

1990
01:23:58,410 --> 01:23:55,449
scientific critical perspective and and

1991
01:24:00,510 --> 01:23:58,420
again the purpose isn't to debunk I

1992
01:24:02,430 --> 01:24:00,520
don't consider myself a debunker and I

1993
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:02,440
don't really like that term I do

1994
01:24:07,799 --> 01:24:06,130
investigations and I am happy to to go

1995
01:24:09,419 --> 01:24:07,809
wherever the investigation leads and the

1996
01:24:11,609 --> 01:24:09,429
answer is that there's a ghost here then

1997
01:24:14,220 --> 01:24:11,619
that's great if the answer there's a you

1998
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:14,230
know I don't I don't care I just want to

1999
01:24:19,740 --> 01:24:16,960
get to the truth and and that's that's

2000
01:24:21,330 --> 01:24:19,750
what I try to do and and you know I hope

2001
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:21,340
that people recognize it even if they

2002
01:24:23,130 --> 01:24:21,730
just

2003
01:24:25,740 --> 01:24:23,140
with me even if they think I'm too

2004
01:24:27,420 --> 01:24:25,750
skeptical or whatever else at least if

2005
01:24:29,070 --> 01:24:27,430
they if they read my work with an open

2006
01:24:31,290 --> 01:24:29,080
mind and they say oh yeah well you know

2007
01:24:32,970 --> 01:24:31,300
he's doing the best he can and I may

2008
01:24:34,770 --> 01:24:32,980
have not enough solved some of these

2009
01:24:37,620 --> 01:24:34,780
mysteries to everyone's satisfaction but

2010
01:24:39,870 --> 01:24:37,630
I needed my bathroom frankly if somebody

2011
01:24:42,060 --> 01:24:39,880
has a better solution then bring it to

2012
01:24:44,430 --> 01:24:42,070
me if I'm wrong about a fact or an

2013
01:24:47,100 --> 01:24:44,440
argument then tell me I don't care I'd

2014
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:47,110
be happy to change but oftentimes I just

2015
01:24:50,670 --> 01:24:48,489
have my critics just sort of take

2016
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:50,680
potshots at me and and they just they

2017
01:24:54,390 --> 01:24:52,210
they have a little couple digs here or

2018
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:54,400
there and they tell me that they think

2019
01:24:58,500 --> 01:24:56,170
I'm wrong but they don't have a better

2020
01:24:59,850 --> 01:24:58,510
answer I say okay what's that what do

2021
01:25:01,740 --> 01:24:59,860
you got yeah this is what I've been

2022
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:01,750
doing what do you got and they they

2023
01:25:04,860 --> 01:25:03,970
don't have any answer so that's you know

2024
01:25:06,690 --> 01:25:04,870
I mean come on

2025
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:06,700
if you comes with the territory there's

2026
01:25:10,590 --> 01:25:08,650
there's just no way around it it's it's

2027
01:25:13,979 --> 01:25:10,600
unavoidable I want to kind of backtrack

2028
01:25:16,530 --> 01:25:13,989
a little bit here and look at typhoid

2029
01:25:18,810 --> 01:25:16,540
Madelyn who I think is a very very

2030
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:18,820
important figure in this whole mystery I

2031
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:21,040
am talking about Madelyn tolentino who

2032
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:23,170
you mentioned earlier in the show had

2033
01:25:27,930 --> 01:25:25,690
the very celebrated sighting and the

2034
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:27,940
spin-off illustration that has become

2035
01:25:33,870 --> 01:25:31,450
pretty much the sort of go-to picture

2036
01:25:34,590 --> 01:25:33,880
when people publish anything about a

2037
01:25:38,220 --> 01:25:34,600
chupacabra

2038
01:25:40,350 --> 01:25:38,230
what let's look at her case quickly and

2039
01:25:43,229 --> 01:25:40,360
dissect it a little bit and you found

2040
01:25:45,690 --> 01:25:43,239
some pretty interesting facts that seem

2041
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:45,700
to indicate that there's possibly a

2042
01:25:50,820 --> 01:25:47,650
little confabulation going on that there

2043
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:50,830
there may be you know the story is kind

2044
01:25:53,340 --> 01:25:52,270
of grown a little bit over the years why

2045
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:53,350
don't want you to take us through the

2046
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:56,170
through her case quickly sure and then

2047
01:26:00,810 --> 01:25:57,730
look at it how it has progressed over

2048
01:26:02,820 --> 01:26:00,820
the years sure yeah one thing you have

2049
01:26:04,410 --> 01:26:02,830
to keep in mind is the the chupacabra

2050
01:26:06,300 --> 01:26:04,420
didn't emerge in a vacuum I mean this

2051
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:06,310
didn't come out of nowhere there was a

2052
01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:09,010
pre-existing belief in Puerto Rico and

2053
01:26:13,290 --> 01:26:11,140
elsewhere that something weird was going

2054
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:13,300
on that there were animals have been

2055
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:15,610
found you know supposedly drained of

2056
01:26:19,830 --> 01:26:17,170
blood and I used the word supposedly

2057
01:26:22,860 --> 01:26:19,840
advisedly in earlier in 1995

2058
01:26:24,750 --> 01:26:22,870
particularly in March of 1995 and so but

2059
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:24,760
nobody had actually seen it they just

2060
01:26:28,110 --> 01:26:26,770
found these dead animals and so there

2061
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:28,120
was a there was some belief that

2062
01:26:32,430 --> 01:26:29,770
something weird was going on but nobody

2063
01:26:35,070 --> 01:26:32,440
had given a description until mrs.

2064
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:35,080
Tolentino and her description she said

2065
01:26:38,020 --> 01:26:35,570
that she

2066
01:26:38,890 --> 01:26:38,030
this this creature during the second

2067
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:38,900
week of August

2068
01:26:41,710 --> 01:26:40,250
she doesn't remember the exact date but

2069
01:26:44,170 --> 01:26:41,720
she said it was a weekday so it would be

2070
01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:44,180
between August 7th and 11th and she said

2071
01:26:48,610 --> 01:26:46,400
that she saw this thing for three to

2072
01:26:50,740 --> 01:26:48,620
five minutes and that her mother woke

2073
01:26:54,910 --> 01:26:50,750
her up and she looked outside her window

2074
01:26:58,600 --> 01:26:54,920
and and she saw this this weird creature

2075
01:27:01,420 --> 01:26:58,610
it had again had distinctive spikes down

2076
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:01,430
the back depending on which time you

2077
01:27:04,330 --> 01:27:02,690
talked or she said there's actually

2078
01:27:07,570 --> 01:27:04,340
closer to three feet tall when I

2079
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:07,580
interviewed her in in 1990 and excuse me

2080
01:27:13,450 --> 01:27:11,330
in 2010 she basically said that that it

2081
01:27:16,510 --> 01:27:13,460
was that the descriptions were actually

2082
01:27:18,850 --> 01:27:16,520
much smaller than what she had seen and

2083
01:27:20,650 --> 01:27:18,860
she said it had human hands its eyes

2084
01:27:23,770 --> 01:27:20,660
were big it didn't have nose just two

2085
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:23,780
little dots the creatures skin was was

2086
01:27:28,780 --> 01:27:26,000
grayish it looked kind of like like like

2087
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:28,790
leather wet and wrinkled it was just a

2088
01:27:35,020 --> 01:27:31,930
very very detailed in fact I would argue

2089
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:35,030
impossibly detailed description so

2090
01:27:38,650 --> 01:27:37,130
that's that's sort of where that's sort

2091
01:27:40,660 --> 01:27:38,660
of where she came from with it so in

2092
01:27:43,290 --> 01:27:40,670
other words what you're suggesting here

2093
01:27:45,940 --> 01:27:43,300
is is the descriptions that she supplied

2094
01:27:49,420 --> 01:27:45,950
investigators initially and then in your

2095
01:27:51,130 --> 01:27:49,430
interview indicates something too much

2096
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:51,140
detail that there's no way that she

2097
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:52,490
could possibly at night have seen

2098
01:27:58,180 --> 01:27:56,210
something so clearly with so much detail

2099
01:28:06,400 --> 01:27:58,190
and not to mention her recall of the

2100
01:28:08,770 --> 01:28:06,410
event itself it was a daytime sighting I

2101
01:28:10,810 --> 01:28:08,780
stand corrected sorry no no that's fine

2102
01:28:13,090 --> 01:28:10,820
there's a lot of confusion around it but

2103
01:28:14,830 --> 01:28:13,100
yeah she but again this is this is where

2104
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:14,840
it got interesting because when I read

2105
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:17,210
her account that's published in in

2106
01:28:20,980 --> 01:28:19,610
Corrales his book it was very very

2107
01:28:23,710 --> 01:28:20,990
detailed and she said things for example

2108
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:23,720
that that there was a young boy nearby

2109
01:28:27,670 --> 01:28:25,610
that had actually chased the chupacabra

2110
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:27,680
into a nearby field and attacked and

2111
01:28:32,410 --> 01:28:30,080
grabbed it and pry its mouth open and

2112
01:28:35,140 --> 01:28:32,420
looked at its teeth and the chupacabra

2113
01:28:36,910 --> 01:28:35,150
jumped away and escaped and this is kind

2114
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:36,920
of remarkable you know I think this is

2115
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:38,960
this is odd this young boy you had the

2116
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:40,610
presence of mind to it you know to do

2117
01:28:45,190 --> 01:28:42,770
this this you know attack the chupacabra

2118
01:28:46,179 --> 01:28:45,200
basically and come away unscathed and

2119
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:46,189
there's

2120
01:28:49,419 --> 01:28:47,570
all these really really interesting

2121
01:28:51,009 --> 01:28:49,429
weird detailed things for example in

2122
01:28:53,620 --> 01:28:51,019
original description she said that the

2123
01:28:56,739 --> 01:28:53,630
chupacabra had no genitals and no anus

2124
01:29:00,399 --> 01:28:56,749
she said that its genitals or the the

2125
01:29:02,799 --> 01:29:00,409
quote is plain and sealed so it just

2126
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:02,809
struck me as odd that she she she gave

2127
01:29:07,179 --> 01:29:05,090
such an incredibly detailed description

2128
01:29:09,219 --> 01:29:07,189
after nobody had seen anything I mean

2129
01:29:10,629 --> 01:29:09,229
you know they're just weird things you

2130
01:29:12,370 --> 01:29:10,639
know out of corn their eye nobody had

2131
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given any description all of a sudden we

2132
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have this incredibly detailed

2133
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description I'll tell you what what's

2134
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also incredibly detailed is the fact

2135
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that our benefactors have to have a few

2136
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moments at bat before we continue here's

2137
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how you contact us if you have a comment

2138
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or a question about the power cast write

2139
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to us news at the power cast calm once

2140
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again that's news at the power cast calm

2141
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we guarantee we will read each and every

2142
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message you send Benjamin Radford the

2143
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guests the book tracking the chupacabra

2144
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Chris O'Brien's a co-host I'm Jean

2145
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[Music]

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at go burka calm let's go burqa calm

2238
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today are you tired of searching for a

2239
01:33:58,550 --> 01:33:54,600
great talk radio more important search

2240
01:34:10,370 --> 01:33:58,560
for Overland we are the gcn radio

2241
01:34:13,130 --> 01:34:10,380
network we return with a fascinating

2242
01:34:14,810 --> 01:34:13,140
description it sounds like one guy kind

2243
01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:14,820
of embellished it more than it might

2244
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:16,800
have otherwise been with Benjamin

2245
01:34:20,870 --> 01:34:18,930
Radford the book is tracking the

2246
01:34:22,610 --> 01:34:20,880
Chupacabra Chris O'Brien's the co-host

2247
01:34:26,180 --> 01:34:22,620
um Jean Steinberg you're in the para

2248
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:26,190
cast so is that all that was a simple

2249
01:34:30,350 --> 01:34:28,530
embellishment of something very simple

2250
01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:30,360
no in fact it turned out to be very

2251
01:34:36,740 --> 01:34:34,290
complex case because after I read her

2252
01:34:38,570 --> 01:34:36,750
original interviews Valentino's original

2253
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:38,580
interviews some parts that were just

2254
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:40,050
contradictory they just didn't make

2255
01:34:45,230 --> 01:34:42,930
sense this the and what struck me was

2256
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:45,240
that this is the this understand this is

2257
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:47,760
the best you know eyewitness account of

2258
01:34:52,430 --> 01:34:50,130
the chupacabra ever at any time by

2259
01:34:54,170 --> 01:34:52,440
anyone and yet you if you look more

2260
01:34:56,870 --> 01:34:54,180
closely at her sighting in the details

2261
01:34:59,570 --> 01:34:56,880
an original account it's just it's just

2262
01:35:02,300 --> 01:34:59,580
full of just strange things that just

2263
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:02,310
don't just very logical and so I tried

2264
01:35:05,630 --> 01:35:03,840
to figure out well where could she have

2265
01:35:07,370 --> 01:35:05,640
seen this strange things that are

2266
01:35:10,430 --> 01:35:07,380
illogical I think I want an explanation

2267
01:35:12,860 --> 01:35:10,440
as to what you mean well for example she

2268
01:35:15,230 --> 01:35:12,870
said that III give one example of the

2269
01:35:17,810 --> 01:35:15,240
the young boy that supposedly ran down

2270
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:17,820
to the chupacabra chased it into a field

2271
01:35:22,670 --> 01:35:20,850
pride its mouth open looked at its teeth

2272
01:35:24,950 --> 01:35:22,680
and then let it escape

2273
01:35:27,710 --> 01:35:24,960
that's strange and my mind's all so

2274
01:35:28,850 --> 01:35:27,720
illogical that a young boy that could do

2275
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:28,860
that to a creature that's supposedly

2276
01:35:33,020 --> 01:35:31,410
attacked and killed cattle there's one

2277
01:35:34,270 --> 01:35:33,030
example right there pretty tough kid

2278
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:34,280
well

2279
01:35:38,500 --> 01:35:36,170
things because they grow I'm tough

2280
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:38,510
around code Rico I'm the groom tough all

2281
01:35:42,370 --> 01:35:40,610
over nowadays you have to be but I don't

2282
01:35:46,270 --> 01:35:42,380
know I don't think I could defeat of a

2283
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:46,280
maybe he was a shadow kid yeah unless he

2284
01:35:49,750 --> 01:35:47,930
has a brown belt or a black belt or

2285
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:49,760
something but what I would do is run in

2286
01:35:54,250 --> 01:35:51,890
the other direction as fast as I could

2287
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:54,260
slaying at the top of my lungs you would

2288
01:35:58,450 --> 01:35:56,810
say in fact if you really tolentino his

2289
01:36:00,340 --> 01:35:58,460
original account she said that her

2290
01:36:03,130 --> 01:36:00,350
mother ran out the door to change this

2291
01:36:06,220 --> 01:36:03,140
creature again I'll do that mother well

2292
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:06,230
I heard of the of the mother protecting

2293
01:36:11,530 --> 01:36:08,570
her cubs but you know what that's pretty

2294
01:36:13,300 --> 01:36:11,540
hardcore sure so again they're just

2295
01:36:15,550 --> 01:36:13,310
parts of this that just weren't making

2296
01:36:18,010 --> 01:36:15,560
sense even on even on the level of you

2297
01:36:20,710 --> 01:36:18,020
know weird cryptid accounts and so the

2298
01:36:22,420 --> 01:36:20,720
question then became well well because

2299
01:36:23,980 --> 01:36:22,430
she gave such a unique distinctive

2300
01:36:25,630 --> 01:36:23,990
description where could she have found

2301
01:36:27,190 --> 01:36:25,640
that where could she have gotten then

2302
01:36:28,420 --> 01:36:27,200
and I searched all around the front

2303
01:36:30,670 --> 01:36:28,430
figure out where my she was seen this

2304
01:36:33,340 --> 01:36:30,680
and I finally figured out where she got

2305
01:36:36,340 --> 01:36:33,350
it and the answer is that the Tolentino

2306
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:36,350
assad the original chupacabra around the

2307
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:37,610
same time that millions of other people

2308
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:40,010
saw the original chupacabra and that was

2309
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:43,760
in a 1995 film called species she had

2310
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:45,890
actually seen this this film and the

2311
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:48,770
monster in that film looks almost

2312
01:36:52,540 --> 01:36:50,810
exactly like the chupacabra that she

2313
01:36:54,910 --> 01:36:52,550
later described it was just remarkable

2314
01:36:56,980 --> 01:36:54,920
the more I looked into it I got all the

2315
01:36:59,020 --> 01:36:56,990
information I could about the the the

2316
01:37:00,370 --> 01:36:59,030
film species and the monster turned out

2317
01:37:03,450 --> 01:37:00,380
it was actually designed by H R Giger

2318
01:37:06,100 --> 01:37:03,460
the the artist who created the alien and

2319
01:37:08,950 --> 01:37:06,110
actually won an Academy Award for his

2320
01:37:11,530 --> 01:37:08,960
work in the movie aliens and he designed

2321
01:37:13,570 --> 01:37:11,540
that the species monster called SIL is

2322
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:13,580
just the parallels are just amazing in

2323
01:37:18,310 --> 01:37:15,410
fact I spend chapter in my book just

2324
01:37:20,140 --> 01:37:18,320
giving all the reasons why the the the

2325
01:37:22,900 --> 01:37:20,150
original Puerto Rican chupacabra was

2326
01:37:25,270 --> 01:37:22,910
lifted directly from from this film I

2327
01:37:27,220 --> 01:37:25,280
have no idea what you saw if anything I

2328
01:37:30,250 --> 01:37:27,230
wasn't there there were apparently no

2329
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:30,260
other eyewitnesses in one account she

2330
01:37:33,670 --> 01:37:31,730
said that her mother and this other

2331
01:37:36,910 --> 01:37:33,680
young boy saw it another account she

2332
01:37:38,890 --> 01:37:36,920
said that only she saw it so I have no

2333
01:37:40,690 --> 01:37:38,900
idea what usually saw but I can tell you

2334
01:37:42,850 --> 01:37:40,700
that it's crystal clear to me and my

2335
01:37:44,710 --> 01:37:42,860
research that that the original

2336
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:44,720
description that that she came up with

2337
01:37:47,500 --> 01:37:46,610
for the the monster of the creature that

2338
01:37:49,569 --> 01:37:47,510
she saw

2339
01:37:52,509 --> 01:37:49,579
was came directly from the sci-fi film

2340
01:37:54,970 --> 01:37:52,519
and I think that she I think that she

2341
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:54,980
just got confused I think she just

2342
01:37:59,830 --> 01:37:56,690
mistook something that she saw in a

2343
01:38:01,180 --> 01:37:59,840
movie with real life and I know that for

2344
01:38:01,899 --> 01:38:01,190
a lot of people and love listeners

2345
01:38:04,419 --> 01:38:01,909
they'll think that well that's

2346
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:04,429
ridiculous people don't do that in fact

2347
01:38:08,410 --> 01:38:07,010
people do that in my book I actually

2348
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:08,420
give a couple different examples of

2349
01:38:14,250 --> 01:38:11,840
where this is these are proven cases

2350
01:38:17,229 --> 01:38:14,260
where people have have reported seeing

2351
01:38:19,750 --> 01:38:17,239
creatures and monsters in real life that

2352
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:19,760
were taken directly from films it's a

2353
01:38:23,379 --> 01:38:21,289
it's a psychological process called

2354
01:38:25,209 --> 01:38:23,389
confabulation and it absolutely does

2355
01:38:26,770 --> 01:38:25,219
happen and I believe that that's what

2356
01:38:28,509 --> 01:38:26,780
happened with her I don't I don't think

2357
01:38:30,549 --> 01:38:28,519
that Tolentino was a liar I don't think

2358
01:38:32,770 --> 01:38:30,559
she's a publicity hound I don't think

2359
01:38:34,930 --> 01:38:32,780
she's a hoaxer I think that she just got

2360
01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:34,940
confused you know someone gets confused

2361
01:38:39,549 --> 01:38:36,260
the question is here if you see

2362
01:38:40,950 --> 01:38:39,559
something alien okay to your experience

2363
01:38:43,419 --> 01:38:40,960
you don't understand it

2364
01:38:45,129 --> 01:38:43,429
wouldn't it be common for somebody to

2365
01:38:47,169 --> 01:38:45,139
say you know what this is what I

2366
01:38:50,109 --> 01:38:47,179
experience in the pop culture the pop

2367
01:38:52,060 --> 01:38:50,119
culture is your inflow so you have maybe

2368
01:38:55,299 --> 01:38:52,070
this popular monster movie for example

2369
01:38:57,729 --> 01:38:55,309
it could be flying saucers you know

2370
01:39:00,129 --> 01:38:57,739
especially all those UFO movies in the

2371
01:39:02,620 --> 01:39:00,139
1950s The Day the Earth Stood Still I

2372
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:02,630
think inspired lots of reports about

2373
01:39:07,029 --> 01:39:04,610
UFOs I'm speaking to somebody who thinks

2374
01:39:09,009 --> 01:39:07,039
there's a lot of significance to a lot

2375
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:09,019
of these events and that's real as a

2376
01:39:13,270 --> 01:39:11,360
reality to be found there but when you

2377
01:39:15,490 --> 01:39:13,280
see something alien to your experience

2378
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:15,500
the easiest thing to do would be to

2379
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:18,050
apply it to something you know to

2380
01:39:23,589 --> 01:39:22,010
explain it mmm yeah and and that would

2381
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:23,599
be a good explanation except for the

2382
01:39:28,779 --> 01:39:27,170
fact that that she says in in the

2383
01:39:31,180 --> 01:39:28,789
interview that appears in sky crosses

2384
01:39:31,839 --> 01:39:31,190
book and also I discussed this at least

2385
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:31,849
in my book

2386
01:39:36,100 --> 01:39:34,130
is she says that she believed that the

2387
01:39:38,919 --> 01:39:36,110
events that were happening in the movie

2388
01:39:39,700 --> 01:39:38,929
species were happening at the time in

2389
01:39:41,410 --> 01:39:39,710
Puerto Rico

2390
01:39:43,540 --> 01:39:41,420
this is this is an important distinction

2391
01:39:45,490 --> 01:39:43,550
because she didn't just say you know the

2392
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:45,500
monster I saw it was kind of like that

2393
01:39:49,689 --> 01:39:48,050
movie she was saying that that she

2394
01:39:52,569 --> 01:39:49,699
thought that things were happening that

2395
01:39:55,299 --> 01:39:52,579
the the events in the movie species were

2396
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:55,309
going on in Puerto Rico at the time and

2397
01:39:59,860 --> 01:39:58,639
the film species the first scene is

2398
01:40:03,700 --> 01:39:59,870
actually set in

2399
01:40:08,220 --> 01:40:03,710
Rico at the Arecibo Observatory and he

2400
01:40:11,020 --> 01:40:08,230
said in 1995 and so it's pretty clear to

2401
01:40:13,150 --> 01:40:11,030
in to my a to my rating and again people

2402
01:40:15,850 --> 01:40:13,160
can judge for themselves I have lots of

2403
01:40:18,670 --> 01:40:15,860
quotes in the book in terms of what she

2404
01:40:20,260 --> 01:40:18,680
actually said that she wasn't just

2405
01:40:21,970 --> 01:40:20,270
saying oh it kind of reminded me of it

2406
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:21,980
she was saying that this looks exactly

2407
01:40:27,850 --> 01:40:25,970
like it and the question comes like well

2408
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:27,860
if you're going to claim that she was

2409
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:30,650
merely using the movie species to

2410
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:33,170
describe what she saw well then you

2411
01:40:37,150 --> 01:40:34,730
would have to be saying that it's just a

2412
01:40:39,490 --> 01:40:37,160
remarkable coincidence the the monster

2413
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:39,500
that she saw looked almost exactly like

2414
01:40:43,900 --> 01:40:41,810
this movie monster well maybe it was the

2415
01:40:46,420 --> 01:40:43,910
one event that she had seen recently and

2416
01:40:49,570 --> 01:40:46,430
that is a larger question do we know

2417
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:49,580
that she saw that movie yes we know that

2418
01:40:55,390 --> 01:40:51,050
for a couple different reasons okay the

2419
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:55,400
first one is that that that I asked her

2420
01:40:59,800 --> 01:40:57,440
point-blank when I interviewed her in

2421
01:41:02,050 --> 01:40:59,810
2010 and in Puerto Rico I said did you

2422
01:41:05,890 --> 01:41:02,060
see the movie species she said yes more

2423
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:05,900
importantly that her her account of this

2424
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:07,730
actually also appears in in Scott

2425
01:41:13,390 --> 01:41:11,570
Corrales is 1997 book chupacabras and in

2426
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:13,400
there she she states very explicitly

2427
01:41:18,970 --> 01:41:16,610
that she saw the creature there and and

2428
01:41:21,460 --> 01:41:18,980
she saw the movie after or before her

2429
01:41:23,740 --> 01:41:21,470
event she saw the movie before her

2430
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:23,750
sighting okay so was she frightened by

2431
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:25,610
the movie is that maybe the connection

2432
01:41:29,590 --> 01:41:27,650
that the movie just scared her out of

2433
01:41:31,990 --> 01:41:29,600
her wits and suddenly she's looking for

2434
01:41:34,180 --> 01:41:32,000
chupacabras everywhere again I I have no

2435
01:41:37,870 --> 01:41:34,190
idea I didn't I didn't psychoanalyze her

2436
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:37,880
I think that she she seemed pretty

2437
01:41:43,090 --> 01:41:41,210
matter-of-fact about it to me I you know

2438
01:41:44,710 --> 01:41:43,100
again I wasn't there I don't know what

2439
01:41:47,980 --> 01:41:44,720
she saw if anything it is interesting

2440
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:47,990
that in her account with me she was

2441
01:41:52,900 --> 01:41:49,730
sleeping right before this account

2442
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:52,910
before right before her sighting is it

2443
01:41:56,980 --> 01:41:54,290
possible if you dreamed the whole thing

2444
01:41:59,700 --> 01:41:56,990
I don't know but I can tell you is that

2445
01:42:01,810 --> 01:41:59,710
nothing about her her original

2446
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:01,820
Chupacabra account which spawned

2447
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:03,290
essentially the whole chupacabra

2448
01:42:08,830 --> 01:42:06,170
phenomena is credible okay spawn the

2449
01:42:10,660 --> 01:42:08,840
Chupacabra phenomenon so you're

2450
01:42:12,130 --> 01:42:10,670
suggesting then let's kind of sum it up

2451
01:42:12,820 --> 01:42:12,140
a little bit before we get to listen to

2452
01:42:14,860 --> 01:42:12,830
questions and

2453
01:42:17,020 --> 01:42:14,870
or commissions from Chris okay so we are

2454
01:42:20,010 --> 01:42:17,030
suggesting here based on what you're

2455
01:42:23,290 --> 01:42:20,020
saying that we have this one event

2456
01:42:26,620 --> 01:42:23,300
possibly influenced by this monster

2457
01:42:29,590 --> 01:42:26,630
movie and other events grow out of it

2458
01:42:32,620 --> 01:42:29,600
everyone who reported chupacabra either

2459
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:32,630
saw species or read her account or what

2460
01:42:36,700 --> 01:42:34,610
I wouldn't say everyone cuz that's

2461
01:42:39,790 --> 01:42:36,710
that's pretty general but certainly if

2462
01:42:42,100 --> 01:42:39,800
you look at many of the many of the

2463
01:42:44,170 --> 01:42:42,110
reports of the chupacabra reports in the

2464
01:42:45,970 --> 01:42:44,180
wake of her sighting they were directly

2465
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:45,980
influenced by her sighting and they

2466
01:42:50,110 --> 01:42:47,930
always say that themselves they say you

2467
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:50,120
know I saw it and I gave a couple quotes

2468
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:52,130
in the book they witnesses will say it

2469
01:42:57,660 --> 01:42:55,130
looked like the the the the drawing I

2470
01:43:00,580 --> 01:42:57,670
saw in the newspaper of Tolentino saw

2471
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:00,590
and because the the her description that

2472
01:43:04,300 --> 01:43:02,810
the the famous drawing appeared not only

2473
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:04,310
on the internet but on the front page of

2474
01:43:08,410 --> 01:43:06,530
the local newspaper so this had widely

2475
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:08,420
this this was seen widely throughout the

2476
01:43:13,090 --> 01:43:10,610
island and elsewhere so basically you're

2477
01:43:16,120 --> 01:43:13,100
saying here that it seems that almost

2478
01:43:18,940 --> 01:43:16,130
every other encounter reported either

2479
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:18,950
they saw this information or someone

2480
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:22,330
told them something that influenced it I

2481
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:24,560
think that's the true for the vast

2482
01:43:28,210 --> 01:43:26,210
majority of them and the other point

2483
01:43:30,310 --> 01:43:28,220
that should be made is that even though

2484
01:43:32,710 --> 01:43:30,320
you'll read in many places including the

2485
01:43:34,690 --> 01:43:32,720
Scott's book that there were dozens or

2486
01:43:36,940 --> 01:43:34,700
hundreds of other similar eyewitness

2487
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:36,950
accounts to Tolentino z-- in fact there

2488
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:38,810
weren't as far as I can tell there were

2489
01:43:43,150 --> 01:43:41,210
a handful of them okay so this got wrong

2490
01:43:45,130 --> 01:43:43,160
dead wrong about this yes

2491
01:43:46,660 --> 01:43:45,140
okay so if he's saying this how many

2492
01:43:49,150 --> 01:43:46,670
cases does he have in his book that

2493
01:43:51,370 --> 01:43:49,160
books a few years back so I don't recall

2494
01:43:54,700 --> 01:43:51,380
it offhand did he have a lot of cases

2495
01:43:58,060 --> 01:43:54,710
just a few what well it's important to

2496
01:43:59,680 --> 01:43:58,070
make a distinction between someone the

2497
01:44:01,210 --> 01:43:59,690
problem is that the people will lump

2498
01:44:02,830 --> 01:44:01,220
them together they'll say well here's

2499
01:44:05,530 --> 01:44:02,840
the Chupacabra report well what does

2500
01:44:07,540 --> 01:44:05,540
that mean oftentimes all Chupacabra

2501
01:44:09,910 --> 01:44:07,550
report means is that someone found a

2502
01:44:12,370 --> 01:44:09,920
dead animal they're not they're very

2503
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:12,380
very specifically not reporting having

2504
01:44:16,270 --> 01:44:14,000
seen a creature certainly okay so

2505
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:16,280
they're looking yes the end result which

2506
01:44:19,930 --> 01:44:18,770
may or may not be something strange this

2507
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:19,940
is not strange

2508
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:22,370
Benjamin Radford last strange guy at all

2509
01:44:25,630 --> 01:44:25,130
seems we don't always agree with him but

2510
01:44:28,090 --> 01:44:25,640
for

2511
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:28,100
there's guy the book is tracking the

2512
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:30,170
chupacabra the co-host is Chris O'Brien

2513
01:44:41,500 --> 01:44:32,690
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

2514
01:44:43,480 --> 01:44:41,510
cast hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd

2515
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:43,490
like to listen to GCN programs on the

2516
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:45,890
goal I have great news gzn has created a

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2520
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2521
01:44:57,670 --> 01:44:55,340
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2522
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2523
01:45:02,230 --> 01:45:00,380
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so download the Droid and iPhone app

2525
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free by clicking on the banner at GCU

2526
01:45:08,530 --> 01:45:06,230
live.com thanks again for listening to

2527
01:45:10,930 --> 01:45:08,540
GC and live.com again that's GC and

2528
01:45:12,940 --> 01:45:10,940
live.com we the people grow cotton wheat

2529
01:45:14,590 --> 01:45:12,950
fabric engraving can bed strips and

2530
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:14,600
fibers to protect from counterfeit and

2531
01:45:17,230 --> 01:45:16,370
carding to a private bank having a led

2532
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:17,240
back at interest

2533
01:45:20,890 --> 01:45:19,010
forcing taxes to service debt this

2534
01:45:22,330 --> 01:45:20,900
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

2535
01:45:23,980 --> 01:45:22,340
stating a central bank issuing the

2536
01:45:25,090 --> 01:45:23,990
public currency is a greater menace to

2537
01:45:26,860 --> 01:45:25,100
the liberties of the people than a

2538
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:26,870
standing army Ted Anderson I'm placing a

2539
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:28,010
free silver dollar in a book that

2540
01:45:33,310 --> 01:45:30,050
explains our monetary system call for

2541
01:45:36,370 --> 01:45:33,320
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

2542
01:45:44,980 --> 01:45:36,380
understand the system call 866 to 237

2543
01:45:46,930 --> 01:45:44,990
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

2544
01:45:50,230 --> 01:45:46,940
the pair cast the gold standard of

2545
01:45:53,140 --> 01:45:50,240
paranormal radio and now here's gene

2546
01:46:01,210 --> 01:45:58,570
I was wondering since the chupacabra is

2547
01:46:03,730 --> 01:46:01,220
a vampire type Beast maybe somebody

2548
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:03,740
should be using a more vampire type

2549
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:06,530
voice do you do that Chris or not the

2550
01:46:16,750 --> 01:46:14,690
pellet cost that was lame I didn't make

2551
01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:16,760
a comment I didn't criticize you my

2552
01:46:21,100 --> 01:46:19,490
hands but Ben Ben editorialized for you

2553
01:46:24,100 --> 01:46:21,110
well you know what I can say is I never

2554
01:46:27,130 --> 01:46:24,110
drink vine yeah and that's just as bad

2555
01:46:30,130 --> 01:46:27,140
the Pentecost the hard to do it dragged

2556
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:30,140
bela lugosi voice with lots of peas in

2557
01:46:37,540 --> 01:46:34,130
Sunbury face well Bela Lugosi was never

2558
01:46:39,730 --> 01:46:37,550
good at P's and Q's is for that matter

2559
01:46:41,590 --> 01:46:39,740
tracking the chupacabras the book Ben

2560
01:46:43,390 --> 01:46:41,600
Radford's our guest Chris O'Brien's the

2561
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:43,400
co-hosts trying his best not to sound

2562
01:46:49,180 --> 01:46:46,610
like Dracula I'm Ching steinberger in

2563
01:46:51,430 --> 01:46:49,190
the para cast Chris have you assembled

2564
01:46:52,780 --> 01:46:51,440
all those questions from our own hands

2565
01:46:56,020 --> 01:46:52,790
but I've got a couple of my own before

2566
01:46:58,210 --> 01:46:56,030
we go on right into the other questions

2567
01:46:59,800 --> 01:46:58,220
Chris okay and this is something that I

2568
01:47:02,200 --> 01:46:59,810
think is really important when you're

2569
01:47:05,350 --> 01:47:02,210
dealing with animal deaths and that is

2570
01:47:07,750 --> 01:47:05,360
physical evidence tracks some sort of

2571
01:47:11,710 --> 01:47:07,760
veterinary examinations based on your

2572
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:11,720
research Ben how many cases feature some

2573
01:47:16,480 --> 01:47:14,290
sort of analytical scientific process

2574
01:47:20,140 --> 01:47:16,490
post-mortem on these animals to your

2575
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:20,150
knowledge because of course people will

2576
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:21,890
you know people can come up with any

2577
01:47:27,610 --> 01:47:24,410
sort of course they want I I would say

2578
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:27,620
very very few I would say probably less

2579
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:30,770
than 5% to the best line but we do have

2580
01:47:39,700 --> 01:47:34,730
a body of data that we could refer to if

2581
01:47:41,050 --> 01:47:39,710
we dug deep enough sure for example I

2582
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:41,060
mean there's there were a couple

2583
01:47:45,190 --> 01:47:43,370
veterinarians who were working in Puerto

2584
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:45,200
Rico at the time at the time meaning

2585
01:47:51,220 --> 01:47:49,610
1996 1987 who examined many of these

2586
01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:51,230
creatures post-mortem I think hundreds

2587
01:47:53,890 --> 01:47:51,890
of them

2588
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:53,900
and their answer their conclusion was

2589
01:47:57,510 --> 01:47:55,370
that there were they were not in fact

2590
01:48:00,250 --> 01:47:57,520
draining the blood so in those cases

2591
01:48:02,080 --> 01:48:00,260
there the an autopsy and necropsy was

2592
01:48:02,830 --> 01:48:02,090
done and the answer was there was no

2593
01:48:05,730 --> 01:48:02,840
vampirism

2594
01:48:07,230 --> 01:48:05,740
did they find crushed trachea

2595
01:48:09,060 --> 01:48:07,240
when pipes that sort of thing sort of

2596
01:48:10,890 --> 01:48:09,070
trauma that would indicate you know your

2597
01:48:12,540 --> 01:48:10,900
working theory that many of these

2598
01:48:15,210 --> 01:48:12,550
probably were killed by some sort of

2599
01:48:18,150 --> 01:48:15,220
predator that would clamp on to the neck

2600
01:48:20,220 --> 01:48:18,160
area for instance yeah the the original

2601
01:48:21,540 --> 01:48:20,230
accounts in fact they were you could see

2602
01:48:23,580 --> 01:48:21,550
them I think there was a TV show called

2603
01:48:25,470 --> 01:48:23,590
is it real on National Geographic and

2604
01:48:27,270 --> 01:48:25,480
the one of the veterinarians was

2605
01:48:30,540 --> 01:48:27,280
featured on there and he discusses this

2606
01:48:33,330 --> 01:48:30,550
that as far as they could tell they were

2607
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:33,340
just the victims ordinary predation how

2608
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:36,370
about other physical trace evidence such

2609
01:48:42,570 --> 01:48:39,250
as animals like chickens inside a coop

2610
01:48:45,210 --> 01:48:42,580
that would be protected from what you

2611
01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:45,220
would think would be your standard Fox

2612
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:47,800
or a wild dog or something like that do

2613
01:48:55,740 --> 01:48:50,800
we have any cases that feature dead

2614
01:48:57,150 --> 01:48:55,750
animals in a secure environment sure I

2615
01:49:00,030 --> 01:48:57,160
mean there's cases where you know

2616
01:49:03,480 --> 01:49:00,040
something got into the chicken coop you

2617
01:49:05,180 --> 01:49:03,490
know I don't doubt for a second that

2618
01:49:07,830 --> 01:49:05,190
something got into the chicken coop the

2619
01:49:10,170 --> 01:49:07,840
question is was it the chupacabra or was

2620
01:49:12,870 --> 01:49:10,180
it it was a dog or coyote I don't know

2621
01:49:14,670 --> 01:49:12,880
he would leave tracks wouldn't it yeah

2622
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:14,680
and in fact in most cases they do find

2623
01:49:18,330 --> 01:49:17,530
dog or coyote tracks there okay here's

2624
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:18,340
another one for you

2625
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:22,570
what about samples of saliva other

2626
01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:24,610
physical evidence I I do seem to recall

2627
01:49:31,110 --> 01:49:29,110
that kind of unusual evidence was left

2628
01:49:33,750 --> 01:49:31,120
behind in the form of some sort of

2629
01:49:36,690 --> 01:49:33,760
saliva or some sort of fluids that it

2630
01:49:38,010 --> 01:49:36,700
was assumed came from the predator do

2631
01:49:42,030 --> 01:49:38,020
you know of any testing that has been

2632
01:49:44,300 --> 01:49:42,040
done right in fact in in Scott's book

2633
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:44,310
there are multiple references to

2634
01:49:51,210 --> 01:49:48,370
chupacabra drool or slime or a scat or

2635
01:49:53,310 --> 01:49:51,220
things like that and in my research none

2636
01:49:55,110 --> 01:49:53,320
of it was credible I tracked down a

2637
01:49:57,990 --> 01:49:55,120
couple different cases in one case for

2638
01:49:59,460 --> 01:49:58,000
example mrs. Tolentino said that there

2639
01:50:01,290 --> 01:49:59,470
had been some slam collected by a

2640
01:50:05,820 --> 01:50:01,300
chupacabra researcher by the name of

2641
01:50:07,560 --> 01:50:05,830
Linda Moulton Howe and and and the

2642
01:50:10,230 --> 01:50:07,570
apparently according to Tolentino the

2643
01:50:12,780 --> 01:50:10,240
sort was this slime had been examined by

2644
01:50:15,570 --> 01:50:12,790
a chemist and and was not of this world

2645
01:50:19,300 --> 01:50:15,580
whatever that might mean and I actually

2646
01:50:20,650 --> 01:50:19,310
I actually contacted mrs. Howell

2647
01:50:23,230 --> 01:50:20,660
for the book and I said I'm just

2648
01:50:24,850 --> 01:50:23,240
wondering what was this an ounce of this

2649
01:50:26,980 --> 01:50:24,860
analysis that was done this alleged

2650
01:50:29,650 --> 01:50:26,990
chupacabra swine and her answer was

2651
01:50:32,500 --> 01:50:29,660
there was no slime there

2652
01:50:34,690 --> 01:50:32,510
you know tolentino simply wrong that

2653
01:50:37,660 --> 01:50:34,700
there was no analysis done no slime I

2654
01:50:40,420 --> 01:50:37,670
also talked to John Downs the center for

2655
01:50:42,550 --> 01:50:40,430
14 zoology and asked him about and he

2656
01:50:45,100 --> 01:50:42,560
said that he had some analysis done of

2657
01:50:45,490 --> 01:50:45,110
the slime and the results turned up

2658
01:50:48,910 --> 01:50:45,500
nothing

2659
01:50:52,030 --> 01:50:48,920
so to invest my knowledge all the

2660
01:50:54,450 --> 01:50:52,040
reports of chupacabra drool slime other

2661
01:50:56,650 --> 01:50:54,460
bodily excretions or whatever else

2662
01:50:59,350 --> 01:50:56,660
they're all just myths as far as I can

2663
01:51:02,140 --> 01:50:59,360
tell how about tracks now I do seem to

2664
01:51:04,390 --> 01:51:02,150
recall that unusual tracks were very

2665
01:51:06,820 --> 01:51:04,400
rare but there were a number of cases

2666
01:51:09,640 --> 01:51:06,830
that featured tracks that didn't conform

2667
01:51:13,480 --> 01:51:09,650
to your standard neighborhood predator

2668
01:51:15,460 --> 01:51:13,490
can you address that sure probably the

2669
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:15,470
most famous chupacabra tracks were taken

2670
01:51:22,660 --> 01:51:19,970
in Florida and though I discussed that

2671
01:51:24,640 --> 01:51:22,670
and those in the book and the the

2672
01:51:26,740 --> 01:51:24,650
universal analysis was that they're

2673
01:51:28,290 --> 01:51:26,750
they're hoaxes now I don't know whether

2674
01:51:30,130 --> 01:51:28,300
the person that took the tracks

2675
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:30,140
committed the hoax or that they

2676
01:51:35,290 --> 01:51:31,610
themselves were hoaxed but it seems

2677
01:51:36,700 --> 01:51:35,300
pretty clear that the those tracks just

2678
01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:36,710
simply are not credible they're not real

2679
01:51:41,590 --> 01:51:38,960
in fact esteban Sarmiento it was a

2680
01:51:44,410 --> 01:51:41,600
primatologist did an analysis of it and

2681
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:44,420
he said there's no credibility to them

2682
01:51:50,530 --> 01:51:46,850
there were also tracks found in Kalama

2683
01:51:52,780 --> 01:51:50,540
chile at some of the attacks there and

2684
01:51:54,460 --> 01:51:52,790
those as far as anybody could tell I

2685
01:51:56,050 --> 01:51:54,470
think the the quote I don't have it from

2686
01:51:58,060 --> 01:51:56,060
me but as I recall the official said

2687
01:52:03,270 --> 01:51:58,070
that there were nothing that distinguish

2688
01:52:06,820 --> 01:52:03,280
it from mural dogs so if somebody has a

2689
01:52:08,590 --> 01:52:06,830
unique bizarre unknown Troopa copper

2690
01:52:10,420 --> 01:52:08,600
track or leadership a copper track I'll

2691
01:52:12,580 --> 01:52:10,430
be happy to see it but so far all the

2692
01:52:15,250 --> 01:52:12,590
ones that have been examined or either

2693
01:52:16,279 --> 01:52:15,260
hoaxes or of known animals well we're

2694
01:52:18,469 --> 01:52:16,289
kind of running out

2695
01:52:20,119 --> 01:52:18,479
of possibilities here for any sort of

2696
01:52:22,159 --> 01:52:20,129
definitive smoking gun evidence that

2697
01:52:23,299 --> 01:52:22,169
would suggest that this is something oh

2698
01:52:25,729 --> 01:52:23,309
hi strange

2699
01:52:28,189 --> 01:52:25,739
I think physical evidence is very

2700
01:52:30,099 --> 01:52:28,199
important especially in cases that

2701
01:52:34,069 --> 01:52:30,109
feature dead animals that leave behind

2702
01:52:36,259 --> 01:52:34,079
and you have physical evidence to to you

2703
01:52:39,199 --> 01:52:36,269
know bring the powers of diagnostic

2704
01:52:40,669 --> 01:52:39,209
science to bear on so you know I wanted

2705
01:52:42,889 --> 01:52:40,679
to make sure that we asked those

2706
01:52:45,739 --> 01:52:42,899
questions because I agree with you there

2707
01:52:46,939 --> 01:52:45,749
is very little if any evidence that

2708
01:52:49,779 --> 01:52:46,949
would suggest that we're dealing with

2709
01:52:55,669 --> 01:52:49,789
anything other than something mundane

2710
01:52:58,219 --> 01:52:55,679
like a a predatory attack by various

2711
01:53:01,429 --> 01:52:58,229
types of animals that tend to attack a

2712
01:53:04,429 --> 01:53:01,439
small livestock not saying that I

2713
01:53:06,409 --> 01:53:04,439
totally totally you know thinking that

2714
01:53:08,949 --> 01:53:06,419
this is all confabulation this is all

2715
01:53:10,939 --> 01:53:08,959
misidentified predator action I

2716
01:53:12,799 --> 01:53:10,949
personally have a sense that there is

2717
01:53:15,289 --> 01:53:12,809
something at the core of this I would

2718
01:53:21,919 --> 01:53:15,299
not want to go to Vegas and place money

2719
01:53:23,779 --> 01:53:21,929
on where do you think the mystery lies

2720
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:23,789
what part of this do you think is not

2721
01:53:30,979 --> 01:53:27,449
explained well I you know again I think

2722
01:53:34,969 --> 01:53:30,989
the power of collective belief is a lot

2723
01:53:37,429 --> 01:53:34,979
more intense and has has more I think is

2724
01:53:40,339 --> 01:53:37,439
more of a subject that needs to you know

2725
01:53:42,919 --> 01:53:40,349
be looked at and further studied I've

2726
01:53:44,989 --> 01:53:42,929
had cases for instance of their parents

2727
01:53:48,679 --> 01:53:44,999
of a demon like figure a devil like

2728
01:53:53,149 --> 01:53:48,689
figure and even though the initial case

2729
01:53:55,250 --> 01:53:53,159
was probably a prank or a hoax all of a

2730
01:53:58,279 --> 01:53:55,260
sudden you have a flurry of very similar

2731
01:54:01,189 --> 01:53:58,289
type reports that spring up in the

2732
01:54:03,199 --> 01:54:01,199
subculture around it that are that

2733
01:54:06,259 --> 01:54:03,209
appear to have some sort of credibility

2734
01:54:07,729 --> 01:54:06,269
at their core no I know there's gonna be

2735
01:54:09,919 --> 01:54:07,739
people on the forums they're gonna tear

2736
01:54:13,369 --> 01:54:09,929
me a new one for that one but this is

2737
01:54:16,339 --> 01:54:13,379
something that I think is is is is a is

2738
01:54:18,829 --> 01:54:16,349
a potentially a very fruitful avenue of

2739
01:54:21,049 --> 01:54:18,839
Investigation and I don't think enough

2740
01:54:23,119 --> 01:54:21,059
work is being done about the power of

2741
01:54:25,759 --> 01:54:23,129
collective belief and how that can

2742
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:25,769
actually potentially in my mind even

2743
01:54:32,160 --> 01:54:29,530
manifest real nuts-and-bolts phenomena

2744
01:54:35,250 --> 01:54:32,170
now that I've totally gotten myself in

2745
01:54:37,500 --> 01:54:35,260
trouble with our bunker skeptics on the

2746
01:54:39,270 --> 01:54:37,510
board well you know what that's gonna be

2747
01:54:40,850 --> 01:54:39,280
something where Ben's gonna leave here

2748
01:54:44,220 --> 01:54:40,860
and by the way Ben I must say this I

2749
01:54:46,380 --> 01:54:44,230
like you so much I want to invite you to

2750
01:54:48,930 --> 01:54:46,390
endure the grief if you have time

2751
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:48,940
feel free to participate in our forums

2752
01:54:53,250 --> 01:54:50,890
I'm serious because I think you have a

2753
01:54:54,780 --> 01:54:53,260
lot of interesting input from this

2754
01:54:58,080 --> 01:54:54,790
interview a lot of interesting things to

2755
01:55:00,900 --> 01:54:58,090
say whether our listeners agree or not

2756
01:55:02,939 --> 01:55:00,910
because we already have a sceptic in our

2757
01:55:04,919 --> 01:55:02,949
forums we want to take all sides and

2758
01:55:06,060 --> 01:55:04,929
that's the way we learn about things so

2759
01:55:11,910 --> 01:55:06,070
if you're up to it

2760
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:11,920
Ben yeah when when does this go out and

2761
01:55:16,110 --> 01:55:14,050
you've been between now then and forever

2762
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:16,120
I'll tell you how to get to the forums

2763
01:55:21,030 --> 01:55:19,330
and how to sign up we got a lot of our

2764
01:55:23,939 --> 01:55:21,040
guests who joined there the book is

2765
01:55:26,250 --> 01:55:23,949
tracking the chupacabra Ben Radford's

2766
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:26,260
the author Chris O'Brien's the co-host

2767
01:55:30,390 --> 01:55:28,690
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the Barrett

2768
01:55:36,230 --> 01:55:30,400
cast

2769
01:55:41,350 --> 01:55:38,640
[Music]

2770
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your doctor your accountant and even the

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2792
01:56:49,750 --> 01:56:47,380
you heard me right the GAO is drawing a

2793
01:56:51,700 --> 01:56:49,760
parallel between the US economy its debt

2794
01:56:54,490 --> 01:56:51,710
and the current Greek economic meltdown

2795
01:56:56,920 --> 01:56:54,500
with the debt to GDP chart climbing into

2796
01:56:58,630 --> 01:56:56,930
unfamiliar territory the growing budget

2797
01:57:01,060 --> 01:56:58,640
deficit will rise to unsupportable

2798
01:57:03,130 --> 01:57:01,070
levels hi this is Ted Anderson the

2799
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:03,140
federal debt and risk of financial

2800
01:57:08,500 --> 01:57:05,930
crises document the CBO has published is

2801
01:57:10,510 --> 01:57:08,510
a must read for every American covering

2802
01:57:13,030 --> 01:57:10,520
the risk of continued deficit spending

2803
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coupled with an aging population and the

2804
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rising interest rates spell economic

2805
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disaster it's imperative that you get a

2806
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copy of this document and study it for

2807
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you've had enough of the foul odors and

2808
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costly repairs use bio safe one septic

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2828
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2829
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berry has provided excellent advice for

2830
01:58:46,170 --> 01:58:43,660
all those interested in practical

2831
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economics and sound money it's certainly

2832
01:58:48,900 --> 01:58:47,020
worth reading

2833
01:58:51,570 --> 01:58:48,910
that's what congressman Ron Paul said

2834
01:58:53,460 --> 01:58:51,580
about cha-ching wisdom 123 practical

2835
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book by dr. David berry the cool part of

2837
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this book certainly it'll speak to you

2838
01:59:01,230 --> 01:58:59,230
personally your life your lifestyle your

2839
01:59:03,390 --> 01:59:01,240
money your investments but it also can

2840
01:59:04,890 --> 01:59:03,400
be generalized into the nation what's

2841
01:59:06,750 --> 01:59:04,900
going on as a nation we do these same

2842
01:59:09,210 --> 01:59:06,760
things personally that we do as a nation

2843
01:59:11,220 --> 01:59:09,220
dr. Berry's book - chain wisdom presents

2844
01:59:13,290 --> 01:59:11,230
many facets of your relationship with

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the once almighty dollar and how current

2846
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national and international politics

2847
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affect your daily life some of the other

2848
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things that are about that they're not

2849
01:59:22,890 --> 01:59:20,620
just economic their philosophical

2850
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there's psychology involved in this book

2851
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2852
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2854
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2855
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2857
01:59:52,040 --> 01:59:46,840
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2858
01:59:56,480 --> 01:59:54,680
we want to hear from you if you have a

2859
02:00:00,290 --> 01:59:56,490
comment or question about the pair cast

2860
02:00:03,830 --> 02:00:00,300
send it to News at Lapera cast calm

2861
02:00:05,420 --> 02:00:03,840
that's news at the Peres cast calm and

2862
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:05,430
don't forget to visit our famous pair

2863
02:00:10,730 --> 02:00:07,770
cast community forums at forum dot

2864
02:00:16,630 --> 02:00:10,740
Lapera cast comm get in on all the

2865
02:00:22,070 --> 02:00:19,400
guess we should call this tracking the

2866
02:00:24,170 --> 02:00:22,080
trickster because our tricksters returns

2867
02:00:25,580 --> 02:00:24,180
might fix their cackle so I figured I'd

2868
02:00:27,740 --> 02:00:25,590
throw it in there just to get myself

2869
02:00:29,210 --> 02:00:27,750
further in trouble well you know we're

2870
02:00:30,260 --> 02:00:29,220
all in trouble you know you have to read

2871
02:00:32,330 --> 02:00:30,270
what some people have been saying about

2872
02:00:34,520 --> 02:00:32,340
us lately and I think we are in trouble

2873
02:00:36,680 --> 02:00:34,530
a lot of his imaginary there's someone

2874
02:00:40,100 --> 02:00:36,690
who put up a blog entry complaining

2875
02:00:42,950 --> 02:00:40,110
because we decided to allow one poster

2876
02:00:44,990 --> 02:00:42,960
to post something another poster not to

2877
02:00:45,800 --> 02:00:45,000
they complained about what we do in our

2878
02:00:51,410 --> 02:00:45,810
message boards

2879
02:00:53,840 --> 02:00:51,420
the co-host I'm gene Steinberger in the

2880
02:00:56,630 --> 02:00:53,850
power cast with Ben Radford Chris why we

2881
02:00:59,630 --> 02:00:56,640
pick up on this okay I do have a bunch

2882
02:01:02,120 --> 02:00:59,640
of questions but they're me more along

2883
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:02,130
the lines of general I think cryptid

2884
02:01:05,690 --> 02:01:03,930
type questions and especially Bigfoot

2885
02:01:07,850 --> 02:01:05,700
but I want to I'm going to continue on

2886
02:01:10,910 --> 02:01:07,860
the Chupacabra topic here a little bit

2887
02:01:13,940 --> 02:01:10,920
we haven't talked at all about the most

2888
02:01:16,700 --> 02:01:13,950
recent incarnation of this mystery which

2889
02:01:20,150 --> 02:01:16,710
I think quite a bit of press has been

2890
02:01:25,490 --> 02:01:20,160
inked down in Texas with these mangy

2891
02:01:28,610 --> 02:01:25,500
looking coyote dog I forget what you

2892
02:01:31,490 --> 02:01:28,620
call them the kind of dog things and and

2893
02:01:34,700 --> 02:01:31,500
even a potentially a hairless raccoon

2894
02:01:36,710 --> 02:01:34,710
may have been found and had the

2895
02:01:39,770 --> 02:01:36,720
Chupacabra label put on him but let's

2896
02:01:41,750 --> 02:01:39,780
let's go ahead and discuss the 21st

2897
02:01:44,690 --> 02:01:41,760
century version of this as it has

2898
02:01:47,210 --> 02:01:44,700
manifested in the media in especially

2899
02:01:51,710 --> 02:01:47,220
Texas sure well we won't we address the

2900
02:01:53,510 --> 02:01:51,720
canine version of this thing yeah with a

2901
02:01:55,700 --> 02:01:53,520
few exceptions as you point out earlier

2902
02:01:58,430 --> 02:01:55,710
the the original chupacabra at the sort

2903
02:02:01,970 --> 02:01:58,440
of alien spikey backed species inspired

2904
02:02:03,690 --> 02:02:01,980
chupacabra wasn't really seen much after

2905
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:03,700
around 2000 Giver

2906
02:02:08,580 --> 02:02:05,650
there are sections but for the most part

2907
02:02:09,630 --> 02:02:08,590
it kind of faded away and people that

2908
02:02:12,390 --> 02:02:09,640
didn't really see much but should

2909
02:02:17,250 --> 02:02:12,400
recover for a few years until about 2004

2910
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:17,260
2005 when people began finding dead

2911
02:02:22,350 --> 02:02:20,170
Harrison nearly hairless dogs dogs and

2912
02:02:24,630 --> 02:02:22,360
coyotes members of the Canon family

2913
02:02:27,360 --> 02:02:24,640
which include AIA dogs coyotes and foxes

2914
02:02:30,600 --> 02:02:27,370
and calling them the chupacabra the most

2915
02:02:32,610 --> 02:02:30,610
famous one is was found in 2007 in Cuero

2916
02:02:34,080 --> 02:02:32,620
Texas by a woman named Phyllis Canyon

2917
02:02:36,060 --> 02:02:34,090
who proclaimed that it was in the summer

2918
02:02:38,280 --> 02:02:36,070
of the chupacabra and she had a good

2919
02:02:40,470 --> 02:02:38,290
time they have sold t-shirts and there

2920
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:40,480
was a big media hubbub and the media

2921
02:02:45,180 --> 02:02:42,010
international news when she found that

2922
02:02:46,740 --> 02:02:45,190
this dead hairless canine actually flew

2923
02:02:50,430 --> 02:02:46,750
out there I was blown out there by the

2924
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:50,440
TV show monster quest to investigate

2925
02:02:55,470 --> 02:02:53,890
that chupacabra and but there were other

2926
02:02:59,220 --> 02:02:55,480
ones that was one in Blanco Texas those

2927
02:03:00,930 --> 02:02:59,230
one Elmendorf Texas there was one and

2928
02:03:02,790 --> 02:03:00,940
turned remain of a couple here in New

2929
02:03:05,460 --> 02:03:02,800
Mexico and elsewhere but for the most

2930
02:03:07,170 --> 02:03:05,470
part in this particular case again there

2931
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:07,180
was a very very different form so yet

2932
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:11,290
you went from the alien II bipedal spiky

2933
02:03:17,010 --> 02:03:14,170
back to monster to essentially what were

2934
02:03:18,750 --> 02:03:17,020
four legged hairless dogs and they

2935
02:03:21,870 --> 02:03:18,760
certainly looked like that and so

2936
02:03:23,670 --> 02:03:21,880
suddenly we had hard evidence and so

2937
02:03:25,500 --> 02:03:23,680
when you have hard evidence you can do

2938
02:03:27,230 --> 02:03:25,510
DNA tests and you can use science and

2939
02:03:30,060 --> 02:03:27,240
forensics to get the the answers and

2940
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:30,070
when when those tests were done they

2941
02:03:36,260 --> 02:03:32,170
came back to be either dogs or coyotes

2942
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:36,270
or on occasion raccoons or in one case a

2943
02:03:42,630 --> 02:03:40,810
notion skate monster of it so that that

2944
02:03:44,370 --> 02:03:42,640
sort of answered that question terms of

2945
02:03:45,990 --> 02:03:44,380
what were these things what were these

2946
02:03:48,750 --> 02:03:46,000
hairless dollars and particularly they

2947
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:48,760
had what's called sarcoptic mange which

2948
02:03:53,910 --> 02:03:50,770
is a skin disease caused by mites which

2949
02:03:55,980 --> 02:03:53,920
causes the hair to to fall out okay and

2950
02:03:58,440 --> 02:03:55,990
so you just totally you're totally

2951
02:04:01,820 --> 02:03:58,450
discounting that as a possibility for a

2952
02:04:04,140 --> 02:04:01,830
form of blood sucking animal then yes

2953
02:04:06,270 --> 02:04:04,150
for a number reasons and I'll just touch

2954
02:04:07,980 --> 02:04:06,280
on them briefly and again I go into I

2955
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:07,990
think the second last chapter in the

2956
02:04:14,260 --> 02:04:10,690
book I deal entirely with the the

2957
02:04:16,870 --> 02:04:14,270
physiology of vampires and for my book I

2958
02:04:18,910 --> 02:04:16,880
I went and researched true vampires that

2959
02:04:21,430 --> 02:04:18,920
is animals that actually do suck blood

2960
02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:21,440
such as leeches and lampreys and vampire

2961
02:04:26,380 --> 02:04:23,690
bats and if you look at those creatures

2962
02:04:30,070 --> 02:04:26,390
these these these animals they have a

2963
02:04:31,690 --> 02:04:30,080
very distinctive adaptive digestive

2964
02:04:33,460 --> 02:04:31,700
systems for example and mouth structures

2965
02:04:35,950 --> 02:04:33,470
that allow them to suck blood if you

2966
02:04:38,110 --> 02:04:35,960
look at these these these Texas

2967
02:04:39,940 --> 02:04:38,120
chupacabras there's no way that they

2968
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:39,950
could physically suck blood it's

2969
02:04:43,780 --> 02:04:42,050
literally impossible for their mouth

2970
02:04:45,820 --> 02:04:43,790
structure to allow them to suck blood

2971
02:04:47,290 --> 02:04:45,830
furthermore there's no mechanism by

2972
02:04:49,870 --> 02:04:47,300
which they could digest blood because

2973
02:04:51,910 --> 02:04:49,880
animals that do suck blood and live on

2974
02:04:54,250 --> 02:04:51,920
blood they have special structures that

2975
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:54,260
they keep them from succumbing to iron

2976
02:04:58,780 --> 02:04:56,570
toxicity because blood is so rich in

2977
02:05:00,790 --> 02:04:58,790
iron that if you were I drank a lot of

2978
02:05:02,530 --> 02:05:00,800
blood it would actually injure us and

2979
02:05:04,870 --> 02:05:02,540
maybe even kill us because there's so

2980
02:05:08,200 --> 02:05:04,880
much iron or our bodies can't handle it

2981
02:05:09,940 --> 02:05:08,210
and so far none of these creatures have

2982
02:05:11,350 --> 02:05:09,950
have been found to have any of the

2983
02:05:14,200 --> 02:05:11,360
characteristics that we would expect

2984
02:05:15,370 --> 02:05:14,210
from a true vampire so aspiring vampires

2985
02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:15,380
out there in the audience

2986
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:17,930
take note drinking too much blood can be

2987
02:05:21,580 --> 02:05:19,010
hazardous to your health

2988
02:05:24,190 --> 02:05:21,590
absolutely well there goes the TV shows

2989
02:05:29,650 --> 02:05:24,200
through blood and of course being human

2990
02:05:31,420 --> 02:05:29,660
forget about it okay I'm gonna go on to

2991
02:05:34,330 --> 02:05:31,430
some questions from the board here titer

2992
02:05:35,680 --> 02:05:34,340
zero zero one mentions that he's always

2993
02:05:37,780 --> 02:05:35,690
found Martin Gardner to be an

2994
02:05:39,670 --> 02:05:37,790
interesting person very much a skeptic

2995
02:05:41,620 --> 02:05:39,680
on one hand yet a believer in God on the

2996
02:05:43,450 --> 02:05:41,630
other what does mr. Radford think of a

2997
02:05:45,310 --> 02:05:43,460
fellow traveler such as the late mr.

2998
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:45,320
Gardner who can hold the hardline

2999
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:47,210
materialistic view and yet maintain a

3000
02:05:51,430 --> 02:05:48,890
wonder and even a belief in the soul

3001
02:05:53,410 --> 02:05:51,440
that was actually Martin's editor for

3002
02:05:55,600 --> 02:05:53,420
for many years he wrote a column for

3003
02:05:57,550 --> 02:05:55,610
skeptical Inquirer magazine and I was I

3004
02:06:00,940 --> 02:05:57,560
was one of his editors for a while and I

3005
02:06:04,030 --> 02:06:00,950
worked with Martin on many occasions and

3006
02:06:05,890 --> 02:06:04,040
I when I first heard about him and met

3007
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:05,900
him I I didn't really understand just

3008
02:06:11,500 --> 02:06:09,770
how how massive intellectual contributor

3009
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:11,510
he was to know not only science but

3010
02:06:15,460 --> 02:06:13,850
skepticism and sort of I grew to

3011
02:06:17,620 --> 02:06:15,470
appreciate that as the years went on

3012
02:06:19,630 --> 02:06:17,630
where I realized just what a massive

3013
02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:19,640
amount of books he had written I think

3014
02:06:24,220 --> 02:06:22,490
over 70 books you know it's certainly

3015
02:06:26,120 --> 02:06:24,230
true that martin profess to believe in

3016
02:06:29,390 --> 02:06:26,130
god belief in God and

3017
02:06:31,610 --> 02:06:29,400
and that's fine I mean I to my mind I've

3018
02:06:33,620 --> 02:06:31,620
always sort of separated out the science

3019
02:06:36,770 --> 02:06:33,630
and religion and you know if people want

3020
02:06:37,370 --> 02:06:36,780
to believe in God or angels or

3021
02:06:40,340 --> 02:06:37,380
what-have-you

3022
02:06:41,990 --> 02:06:40,350
I personally don't care the only place

3023
02:06:44,209 --> 02:06:42,000
that I get into it in my investigations

3024
02:06:45,800 --> 02:06:44,219
is if someone makes a claim that's

3025
02:06:47,780 --> 02:06:45,810
testable I mean if you tell me you

3026
02:06:49,550 --> 02:06:47,790
believe in God that's fine I that

3027
02:06:51,950 --> 02:06:49,560
doesn't bother me at all if you tell me

3028
02:06:53,629 --> 02:06:51,960
that you were healed by God or God gave

3029
02:06:55,459 --> 02:06:53,639
you some special magical power or

3030
02:06:58,280 --> 02:06:55,469
something then at that point that

3031
02:06:59,899 --> 02:06:58,290
becomes a testable claim so that's

3032
02:07:02,360 --> 02:06:59,909
that's where I the draw the line between

3033
02:07:04,430 --> 02:07:02,370
investigate able and and and personal

3034
02:07:07,100 --> 02:07:04,440
beliefs and it doesn't bother me at all

3035
02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:07,110
that that Martin you know believe in God

3036
02:07:12,189 --> 02:07:08,610
that's that's great I mean if you found

3037
02:07:14,510 --> 02:07:12,199
that comforting then more power to him

3038
02:07:16,899 --> 02:07:14,520
yeah I've always wondered about that how

3039
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:16,909
scientists like quantum physicists could

3040
02:07:22,399 --> 02:07:20,010
you know do all this heavy lifting in

3041
02:07:24,500 --> 02:07:22,409
terms of theoretical physics and

3042
02:07:26,209 --> 02:07:24,510
mathematics and then go to church and

3043
02:07:28,879 --> 02:07:26,219
sort of leave their leave their

3044
02:07:29,919 --> 02:07:28,889
scientific selves at the door I've

3045
02:07:32,810 --> 02:07:29,929
always found that very fascinating

3046
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:32,820
here's another couple of questions this

3047
02:07:39,590 --> 02:07:36,570
is from ex Lord summers selects who

3048
02:07:41,930 --> 02:07:39,600
claims he's a paranormal master this

3049
02:07:44,360 --> 02:07:41,940
should be good I'd be interested to know

3050
02:07:46,550 --> 02:07:44,370
your take on Jeff Meldrum's

3051
02:07:49,370 --> 02:07:46,560
interpretation of apparently consistent

3052
02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:49,380
anatomical features such as mid tarsal

3053
02:07:56,360 --> 02:07:52,250
breaks in alleged Bigfoot footprints Oh

3054
02:07:58,010 --> 02:07:56,370
Jeff you know what I'll have to take

3055
02:08:00,320 --> 02:07:58,020
this to our next segment because you

3056
02:08:02,540 --> 02:08:00,330
know that little clock says there are

3057
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:02,550
sponsors out there who have things to

3058
02:08:07,340 --> 02:08:04,770
sell and if we don't give them a chance

3059
02:08:08,899 --> 02:08:07,350
to sell those things we don't let them

3060
02:08:10,340 --> 02:08:08,909
take care of their business well we

3061
02:08:11,959 --> 02:08:10,350
won't have a business and we won't have

3062
02:08:14,090 --> 02:08:11,969
a show that's how it goes we'll have you

3063
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:14,100
answer that question in our next segment

3064
02:08:18,169 --> 02:08:15,690
this is what we call the cliffhanger

3065
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:18,179
portion of the para cast in the final

3066
02:08:22,970 --> 02:08:20,639
hour we have Benjamin Radford the book

3067
02:08:25,459 --> 02:08:22,980
is tracking the chupacabra but as you

3068
02:08:27,290 --> 02:08:25,469
see the discussion will go far afield as

3069
02:08:29,180 --> 02:08:27,300
we answer the questions from our

3070
02:08:35,740 --> 02:08:29,190
listeners the co-host is Chris O'Brien

3071
02:08:35,750 --> 02:08:40,070
[Music]

3072
02:08:46,229 --> 02:08:44,100
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

3073
02:08:48,750 --> 02:08:46,239
creatures from the darkest corners of

3074
02:08:51,570 --> 02:08:48,760
the mind roam the earth is there

3075
02:08:55,260 --> 02:08:51,580
evidence for mind control time travel or

3076
02:08:56,850 --> 02:08:55,270
devious government conspiracies find out

3077
02:08:59,490 --> 02:08:56,860
the inside scoop on the latest

3078
02:09:02,130 --> 02:08:59,500
conspiracies paranormal activity and

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02:09:05,100 --> 02:09:02,140
accordion phenomena when you subscribe

3080
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to tim Beckley's conspiracy tarou it's

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jam-packed with stories special book and

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DVD promotions and the best news it's

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absolutely free sent right to your

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mailbox plus a bonus free email

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newsletter sent out every Friday simply

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02:09:25,860 --> 02:09:21,700
send an email with your name and address

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02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:25,870
to Mister UFO at what TV net

3088
02:09:37,970 --> 02:09:31,210
that's mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out

3089
02:09:42,790 --> 02:09:39,610
[Music]

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3181
02:13:08,960 --> 02:13:06,840
we never know I was supposed to be

3182
02:13:11,030 --> 02:13:08,970
Bigfoot gene you're a Bigfoot well you

3183
02:13:13,100 --> 02:13:11,040
know I think gruff fear you know that be

3184
02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:13,110
gruff that's all I'll work on that okay

3185
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:16,050
yeah sure okay so we were talking child

3186
02:13:20,570 --> 02:13:18,090
young Chris we're talking to Ben Radford

3187
02:13:23,030 --> 02:13:20,580
I would quit my day job but I think this

3188
02:13:25,130 --> 02:13:23,040
is it we're talking to Ben Radford the

3189
02:13:27,230 --> 02:13:25,140
book is tracking the chupacabra I'm gene

3190
02:13:29,180 --> 02:13:27,240
Steinberg and you're in the para cast

3191
02:13:31,280 --> 02:13:29,190
and before we broke you were starting to

3192
02:13:34,490 --> 02:13:31,290
answer question then why'd you pick up

3193
02:13:36,470 --> 02:13:34,500
on that yeah the drums research

3194
02:13:37,850 --> 02:13:36,480
he's an animist at the University of

3195
02:13:38,390 --> 02:13:37,860
Idaho as I recall he's written a couple

3196
02:13:41,330 --> 02:13:38,400
of books

3197
02:13:43,340 --> 02:13:41,340
I think main one is I think it's called

3198
02:13:45,110 --> 02:13:43,350
Sasquatch legend meets science or

3199
02:13:46,820 --> 02:13:45,120
something Jeff is an interesting

3200
02:13:50,210 --> 02:13:46,830
character because he sort of inherited

3201
02:13:52,760 --> 02:13:50,220
the mantle of the the primary Bigfoot

3202
02:13:54,020 --> 02:13:52,770
scientist after Grover Krantz died I

3203
02:13:56,210 --> 02:13:54,030
like Jeff I've met him a couple times

3204
02:13:58,280 --> 02:13:56,220
and he I personally think he's a cool

3205
02:14:00,980 --> 02:13:58,290
guy and he's a he's a nice guy

3206
02:14:04,100 --> 02:14:00,990
I do however have serious problems with

3207
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:04,110
the logic in his book hip where he talks

3208
02:14:09,590 --> 02:14:06,690
about for example me tarsal breaks and

3209
02:14:12,010 --> 02:14:09,600
and and some things that in terms of

3210
02:14:15,140 --> 02:14:12,020
play for example why why a big footprint

3211
02:14:18,230 --> 02:14:15,150
must be real and I don't have the time

3212
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:18,240
deaths to get into it but I along with

3213
02:14:24,530 --> 02:14:21,450
several people including Maryland David

3214
02:14:27,560 --> 02:14:24,540
daily and Mike Bennett wrote a very

3215
02:14:29,540 --> 02:14:27,570
in-depth review of Meldrum's book in

3216
02:14:32,660 --> 02:14:29,550
skeptical Inquirer magazine it was a

3217
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:32,670
four was a basically each of us reviewed

3218
02:14:37,400 --> 02:14:34,410
a part of this book from our particular

3219
02:14:41,030 --> 02:14:37,410
brand of expertise and that that deals a

3220
02:14:44,180 --> 02:14:41,040
lot with our responses to to Jess Jess

3221
02:14:45,560 --> 02:14:44,190
book I like him I don't think his

3222
02:14:48,830 --> 02:14:45,570
science is very good in some of those

3223
02:14:50,210 --> 02:14:48,840
cases and I'd like to see more out of

3224
02:14:52,820 --> 02:14:50,220
them so you

3225
02:14:55,820 --> 02:14:52,830
okay part two of Lord summers Lex's

3226
02:14:58,010 --> 02:14:55,830
questions would be he'd be interested to

3227
02:15:00,620 --> 02:14:58,020
get your take on the patterson-gimlin

3228
02:15:02,630 --> 02:15:00,630
film Bob hieronymus the guy who claimed

3229
02:15:04,280 --> 02:15:02,640
he wore this suit has changed his story

3230
02:15:06,050 --> 02:15:04,290
and on a number of occasions giving

3231
02:15:08,210 --> 02:15:06,060
contradictory versions of the details of

3232
02:15:10,580 --> 02:15:08,220
this suit and so on which it best

3233
02:15:12,860 --> 02:15:10,590
suggests that he's an unreliable witness

3234
02:15:15,530 --> 02:15:12,870
could this version of events be a hoax

3235
02:15:17,390 --> 02:15:15,540
in and of itself personally he's on the

3236
02:15:19,220 --> 02:15:17,400
fence in terms of the veracity of the

3237
02:15:21,080 --> 02:15:19,230
film Patterson story has problems

3238
02:15:23,270 --> 02:15:21,090
particularly in regards to the timeline

3239
02:15:24,860 --> 02:15:23,280
of developing the film exactly but then

3240
02:15:26,990 --> 02:15:24,870
the long hieronymus version has its

3241
02:15:30,020 --> 02:15:27,000
problems too so I guess he wants you to

3242
02:15:31,550 --> 02:15:30,030
address that much sure obviously this is

3243
02:15:34,850 --> 02:15:31,560
a subject I could talk for an hour and a

3244
02:15:37,040 --> 02:15:34,860
half on but essentially you know the the

3245
02:15:38,690 --> 02:15:37,050
hieronymus story I mean just to be very

3246
02:15:40,340 --> 02:15:38,700
clear there are several people who have

3247
02:15:42,500 --> 02:15:40,350
claimed to have been in the Bigfoot suit

3248
02:15:44,420 --> 02:15:42,510
not just for animus Ron's has only ones

3249
02:15:46,550 --> 02:15:44,430
latest ones and people need to

3250
02:15:48,800 --> 02:15:46,560
understand that it's it's not it's a

3251
02:15:51,860 --> 02:15:48,810
false dichotomy to say that either Bob

3252
02:15:54,020 --> 02:15:51,870
hieronymus is lying or the Bigfoot the

3253
02:15:55,790 --> 02:15:54,030
Patterson Gimlin film was real that's

3254
02:15:58,760 --> 02:15:55,800
not correct I mean it could be that he's

3255
02:16:02,300 --> 02:15:58,770
lying and and as well the the film is

3256
02:16:04,850 --> 02:16:02,310
fake so and as as the question included

3257
02:16:08,180 --> 02:16:04,860
there are some very very serious issues

3258
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:08,190
with the timeline and how exactly the

3259
02:16:11,060 --> 02:16:09,360
the patter system could have been

3260
02:16:13,340 --> 02:16:11,070
developed in such a short period of time

3261
02:16:16,220 --> 02:16:13,350
if you go back and you later look at it

3262
02:16:18,200 --> 02:16:16,230
that so far even the people who believe

3263
02:16:20,150 --> 02:16:18,210
very staunchly in the in the Patterson

3264
02:16:22,370 --> 02:16:20,160
Gimlin film they can't explain it they

3265
02:16:24,410 --> 02:16:22,380
don't have an answer for for how some of

3266
02:16:26,090 --> 02:16:24,420
these things were even possible again

3267
02:16:29,210 --> 02:16:26,100
there's a lot to it there's been claims

3268
02:16:30,680 --> 02:16:29,220
for example that the the locomotion that

3269
02:16:32,690 --> 02:16:30,690
you see in the film could not be

3270
02:16:35,030 --> 02:16:32,700
duplicated and that's been proven false

3271
02:16:38,690 --> 02:16:35,040
by a friend of mine Dave Daley who wrote

3272
02:16:41,120 --> 02:16:38,700
a book on the subject and he did his own

3273
02:16:44,270 --> 02:16:41,130
test in fact you can do the exact

3274
02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:44,280
locomotion of the things so I think to

3275
02:16:48,050 --> 02:16:46,290
my mind again there's lots and lots to

3276
02:16:50,660 --> 02:16:48,060
it to my mind one of the biggest

3277
02:16:53,180 --> 02:16:50,670
arguments against it is that the you

3278
02:16:55,370 --> 02:16:53,190
know the Patterson film remains the best

3279
02:16:58,340 --> 02:16:55,380
evidence for Bigfoot and again remember

3280
02:17:00,910 --> 02:16:58,350
this is 1967 this is when Lyndon Johnson

3281
02:17:03,270 --> 02:17:00,920
was in the White House you know said

3282
02:17:04,620 --> 02:17:03,280
since that time you know

3283
02:17:06,870 --> 02:17:04,630
hammers have been cheaper more

3284
02:17:08,940 --> 02:17:06,880
affordable better quality I find it

3285
02:17:12,690 --> 02:17:08,950
inexplicable that if there really are

3286
02:17:15,240 --> 02:17:12,700
Bigfoots in a better quality film or

3287
02:17:18,270 --> 02:17:15,250
video made in the last you know almost

3288
02:17:19,710 --> 02:17:18,280
50 years I I just find that unbelievable

3289
02:17:20,570 --> 02:17:19,720
so the polish footage is pretty

3290
02:17:23,100 --> 02:17:20,580
interesting

3291
02:17:25,950 --> 02:17:23,110
I maybe you're more impressed with it

3292
02:17:28,200 --> 02:17:25,960
than I am but even the question remains

3293
02:17:29,940 --> 02:17:28,210
why isn't there better evidence yeah

3294
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:29,950
just like UFO photos are always blurry

3295
02:17:35,610 --> 02:17:33,010
and out of focus you know well we have

3296
02:17:38,490 --> 02:17:35,620
another interesting question from our

3297
02:17:41,310 --> 02:17:38,500
previous questioner if Bigfoot doesn't

3298
02:17:42,870 --> 02:17:41,320
exist what are people experiencing while

3299
02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:42,880
I'd agree that the image of a hairy

3300
02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:45,370
forest giant has archetypal and occurs

3301
02:17:48,870 --> 02:17:47,290
in many different cultures how could

3302
02:17:50,910 --> 02:17:48,880
this lead to people seeing something

3303
02:17:52,770 --> 02:17:50,920
they believed to be Bigfoot what do you

3304
02:17:55,980 --> 02:17:52,780
think of other mystery primates such as

3305
02:17:59,340 --> 02:17:55,990
the orange and AK for instance well as

3306
02:18:01,350 --> 02:17:59,350
with vampires stories of sort of wild

3307
02:18:03,810 --> 02:18:01,360
man of the woods and furo people of Ural

3308
02:18:05,490 --> 02:18:03,820
men are universal there's nothing new

3309
02:18:07,710 --> 02:18:05,500
about that to report it all over the

3310
02:18:09,600 --> 02:18:07,720
place and you can you can find cases of

3311
02:18:11,940 --> 02:18:09,610
that in in Native American lore and

3312
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:11,950
First Nations lore and elsewhere that's

3313
02:18:16,560 --> 02:18:14,410
not particularly surprising and in terms

3314
02:18:18,210 --> 02:18:16,570
of what are people seeing people are

3315
02:18:20,040 --> 02:18:18,220
it's the same thing with with ghosts and

3316
02:18:21,690 --> 02:18:20,050
Chupacabra sightings it's a mistake to

3317
02:18:24,420 --> 02:18:21,700
look for one singular blanket

3318
02:18:26,310 --> 02:18:24,430
explanation because there isn't one some

3319
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:26,320
people are seeing brown bears some

3320
02:18:29,940 --> 02:18:28,690
people are seeing you know pranksters

3321
02:18:31,560 --> 02:18:29,950
some people are seeing hoaxes or some

3322
02:18:34,530 --> 02:18:31,570
people are seeing things in their

3323
02:18:35,850 --> 02:18:34,540
imagination a lot of times as was the

3324
02:18:38,930 --> 02:18:35,860
case with chupacabra that I talked about

3325
02:18:40,890 --> 02:18:38,940
is that people will report Bigfoot

3326
02:18:42,360 --> 02:18:40,900
experiences but they don't necessarily

3327
02:18:43,650 --> 02:18:42,370
have any connection to Bigfoot for

3328
02:18:46,230 --> 02:18:43,660
example there are many cases where

3329
02:18:48,960 --> 02:18:46,240
people will be out camping in the woods

3330
02:18:50,850 --> 02:18:48,970
and they'll hear girl growls or you know

3331
02:18:52,560 --> 02:18:50,860
they'll have rocks being thrown or

3332
02:18:54,600 --> 02:18:52,570
something and they'll assume it's

3333
02:18:57,960 --> 02:18:54,610
Bigfoot without actually having seen a

3334
02:19:00,030 --> 02:18:57,970
Bigfoot so it's important to not lump

3335
02:19:01,590 --> 02:19:00,040
together you know any sort of weird

3336
02:19:04,350 --> 02:19:01,600
sounds someone hears in the woods with

3337
02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:04,360
an up-close Bigfoot sighting well I have

3338
02:19:09,240 --> 02:19:06,370
a personal experience that's very much

3339
02:19:12,120 --> 02:19:09,250
like you've just described the base of

3340
02:19:14,430 --> 02:19:12,130
Mount Shasta or I feel I heard something

3341
02:19:16,410 --> 02:19:14,440
that was impossibly loud that did not

3342
02:19:18,209 --> 02:19:16,420
conform to any animal

3343
02:19:20,640 --> 02:19:18,219
that I've ever heard of or heard

3344
02:19:22,620 --> 02:19:20,650
examples of their calls it literally

3345
02:19:25,020 --> 02:19:22,630
made my eardrums rattle it was so loud

3346
02:19:28,860 --> 02:19:25,030
it bounced off foothills over a mile

3347
02:19:30,509 --> 02:19:28,870
away and I assume whatever was crashing

3348
02:19:32,100 --> 02:19:30,519
through that impenetrable hedge of

3349
02:19:35,190 --> 02:19:32,110
mountain huckleberry whatever this was

3350
02:19:37,049 --> 02:19:35,200
super tough the hedge was made out of it

3351
02:19:39,780 --> 02:19:37,059
was coming at me and there was no way

3352
02:19:41,160 --> 02:19:39,790
that anything unless it was huge could

3353
02:19:43,250 --> 02:19:41,170
could have made its way through that

3354
02:19:46,160 --> 02:19:43,260
hedge now this could have been totally

3355
02:19:48,480 --> 02:19:46,170
you know just a whole combination of

3356
02:19:50,280 --> 02:19:48,490
mundane events that happened to call s

3357
02:19:52,980 --> 02:19:50,290
together into something it sure seemed

3358
02:19:55,710 --> 02:19:52,990
like a big but ticked off at my buddy

3359
02:19:57,179 --> 02:19:55,720
and I and off the mountain but you would

3360
02:19:58,800 --> 02:19:57,189
agree that just because you can't

3361
02:20:01,350 --> 02:19:58,810
identify the sound doesn't mean it's

3362
02:20:04,290 --> 02:20:01,360
it's it's undeniable right that's

3363
02:20:06,330 --> 02:20:04,300
correct I did not see it I smelled it it

3364
02:20:16,050 --> 02:20:06,340
was one of the most foul-smelling smells

3365
02:20:19,230 --> 02:20:16,060
I've ever smelled did you bust one no I

3366
02:20:20,700 --> 02:20:19,240
didn't and there was this weird fecal

3367
02:20:23,460 --> 02:20:20,710
material that seemed to be smeared on

3368
02:20:26,520 --> 02:20:23,470
some strip branches or these huge

3369
02:20:28,980 --> 02:20:26,530
mountain flies were flying around it so

3370
02:20:30,750 --> 02:20:28,990
there were other things involved in

3371
02:20:33,810 --> 02:20:30,760
deciding which I I don't want to digress

3372
02:20:36,390 --> 02:20:33,820
too far here but but yes I it's a point

3373
02:20:37,980 --> 02:20:36,400
well taken that just because it looks

3374
02:20:39,719 --> 02:20:37,990
like it sucking quacks like a duck

3375
02:20:43,620 --> 02:20:39,729
doesn't mean that it's necessarily a

3376
02:20:45,300 --> 02:20:43,630
duck you know that Chris would be there

3377
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:45,310
and they wanted to just freak you out

3378
02:20:53,160 --> 02:20:50,770
that's all yeah that great barker gray

3379
02:20:56,340 --> 02:20:53,170
Parker wasn't alive in was he no no

3380
02:20:58,080 --> 02:20:56,350
or it wasn't Moseley either I don't know

3381
02:21:02,219 --> 02:20:58,090
of Mosley of all the things he's done

3382
02:21:04,170 --> 02:21:02,229
ever tried to become a Bigfoot I mean

3383
02:21:10,400 --> 02:21:04,180
he's done his share of stuff been you

3384
02:21:14,550 --> 02:21:10,410
know who Jim Mosely is right around know

3385
02:21:16,590 --> 02:21:14,560
you know because Freeman is responsible

3386
02:21:19,710 --> 02:21:16,600
for some some pretty dubious Bigfoot

3387
02:21:21,210 --> 02:21:19,720
stuff so yeah well we was a firm up this

3388
02:21:22,770 --> 02:21:21,220
logging road we had to dig our way

3389
02:21:24,090 --> 02:21:22,780
through snowdrifts to get up there we

3390
02:21:25,830 --> 02:21:24,100
were the first ones there that year it

3391
02:21:27,810 --> 02:21:25,840
was early spring so it was pretty

3392
02:21:28,850 --> 02:21:27,820
interesting experience one that

3393
02:21:30,921 --> 02:21:28,860
definitely stand

3394
02:21:32,690 --> 02:21:30,931
out of my mind no question and doesn't

3395
02:21:34,341 --> 02:21:32,700
sound as if Jim Mosley would want to go

3396
02:21:36,711 --> 02:21:34,351
there because Jim lives in Florida these

3397
02:21:38,870 --> 02:21:36,721
days he wants the warm weather you know

3398
02:21:41,180 --> 02:21:38,880
it's just not the kind of thing he does

3399
02:21:43,700 --> 02:21:41,190
we'll get to more of the questions from

3400
02:21:45,381 --> 02:21:43,710
our audience on the para cast I

3401
02:21:47,421 --> 02:21:45,391
understand by the way they're hearing us

3402
02:21:50,270 --> 02:21:47,431
now in not only in Texas and other

3403
02:21:52,820 --> 02:21:50,280
cities but recently an outlet in Atlanta

3404
02:21:54,081 --> 02:21:52,830
added the power cast to their stables so

3405
02:21:56,360 --> 02:21:54,091
we're growing and if you know of a

3406
02:21:58,700 --> 02:21:56,370
station they do not have to be a member

3407
02:22:01,041 --> 02:21:58,710
of the gcn Network to carry the power

3408
02:22:02,900 --> 02:22:01,051
cast if you know of a station in your

3409
02:22:05,211 --> 02:22:02,910
area a talk station that might carry our

3410
02:22:07,940 --> 02:22:05,221
show contact us news at the power cast

3411
02:22:09,680 --> 02:22:07,950
comm news at the power cast comm just

3412
02:22:12,650 --> 02:22:09,690
let us know write us news at the power

3413
02:22:14,390 --> 02:22:12,660
cast comm so the story of course here is

3414
02:22:16,370 --> 02:22:14,400
that if you know the station write us

3415
02:22:18,680 --> 02:22:16,380
news at the power cast I come the use of

3416
02:22:20,541 --> 02:22:18,690
the power cast out calm if you know the

3417
02:22:23,240 --> 02:22:20,551
name of the executives give us the name

3418
02:22:25,581 --> 02:22:23,250
so we can have our affiliate manager TCM

3419
02:22:27,410 --> 02:22:25,591
check them out the guest is Benjamin

3420
02:22:29,511 --> 02:22:27,420
Radford the book is tracking the

3421
02:22:31,640 --> 02:22:29,521
Chupacabra Chris O'Brien's the co-host

3422
02:22:35,200 --> 02:22:31,650
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the Perot

3423
02:22:41,180 --> 02:22:38,860
[Music]

3424
02:22:43,490 --> 02:22:41,190
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3425
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3426
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what went wrong after I got two large

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mercury fillings put into my teeth I

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that's one world whe you Icom are you

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tired of searching for great talk radio

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helping you more important sir

3531
02:26:59,961 --> 02:26:56,450
this is Jacques Vallee are you listening

3532
02:27:07,100 --> 02:26:59,971
to the podcast the gold standard of

3533
02:27:09,230 --> 02:27:07,110
paranormal radio Ruffy bigfoot-like

3534
02:27:12,620 --> 02:27:09,240
after he tells about his possible

3535
02:27:13,970 --> 02:27:12,630
Bigfoot encounter you got the voice tell

3536
02:27:16,761 --> 02:27:13,980
me you didn't hear a voice there when

3537
02:27:20,421 --> 02:27:16,771
you had this encounter Chris it was a

3538
02:27:25,520 --> 02:27:20,431
cross between a bull elephant a lion

3539
02:27:27,290 --> 02:27:25,530
roar and a steam locomotive I it was

3540
02:27:29,841 --> 02:27:27,300
just the most thunderous sound I've ever

3541
02:27:31,761 --> 02:27:29,851
heard and it was a vocalization no

3542
02:27:33,980 --> 02:27:31,771
question about it tell you what Chris

3543
02:27:35,690 --> 02:27:33,990
tell you what I don't want to be there

3544
02:27:36,820 --> 02:27:35,700
I'm not gonna join you on these things

3545
02:27:39,171 --> 02:27:36,830
because I'd run the other direction

3546
02:27:41,150 --> 02:27:39,181
that's my problem Chris O'Brien's the

3547
02:27:43,610 --> 02:27:41,160
co-host I'm gene Steinberg the guest is

3548
02:27:45,830 --> 02:27:43,620
Benjamin Radford the book is tracking

3549
02:27:48,980 --> 02:27:45,840
the chupacabra this is our final segment

3550
02:27:51,110 --> 02:27:48,990
dan what do you think people are seen it

3551
02:27:54,650 --> 02:27:51,120
could it be in the case of the orangutan

3552
02:27:56,060 --> 02:27:54,660
dad could it be a true potential crypto

3553
02:27:58,011 --> 02:27:56,070
creature do you think I mystery primate

3554
02:28:05,270 --> 02:27:58,021
do you think there are mystery primates

3555
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:05,280
out there as you get a gigantic I would

3556
02:28:09,770 --> 02:28:06,570
have to come down and say you know

3557
02:28:12,110 --> 02:28:09,780
where's the evidence as I always do you

3558
02:28:14,060 --> 02:28:12,120
know I I would love to be to be the

3559
02:28:16,400 --> 02:28:14,070
first person to see the Bigfoot or to

3560
02:28:21,350 --> 02:28:16,410
discover it and to cover you know the

3561
02:28:24,250 --> 02:28:21,360
news of its discovery I have a question

3562
02:28:27,051 --> 02:28:24,260
for you ever seen a dead bear carcass I

3563
02:28:30,711 --> 02:28:27,061
have in fact yeah okay how about a dead

3564
02:28:32,841 --> 02:28:30,721
mountain lion no there are lots of bears

3565
02:28:35,511 --> 02:28:32,851
and lots of mountain lions but very very

3566
02:28:38,240 --> 02:28:35,521
little in the case of mountain lines I I

3567
02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:38,250
do not know anyone who's ever seen a

3568
02:28:43,671 --> 02:28:40,410
mountain lion carcass and I know quite a

3569
02:28:45,680 --> 02:28:43,681
few outdoorsmen and I've asked that

3570
02:28:48,801 --> 02:28:45,690
would be one argument that would suggest

3571
02:28:50,900 --> 02:28:48,811
that possibly uh you know the physical

3572
02:28:52,610 --> 02:28:50,910
evidence left behind may be a lot more

3573
02:28:55,180 --> 02:28:52,620
rare than then you would you would

3574
02:28:57,410 --> 02:28:55,190
suspect so well that's one argument

3575
02:28:59,930 --> 02:28:57,420
except for the fact that I don't judge

3576
02:29:01,671 --> 02:28:59,940
it based upon whether I personally have

3577
02:29:03,650 --> 02:29:01,681
seen it I mean I have never seen a

3578
02:29:04,131 --> 02:29:03,660
giraffe fetus either but I don't doubt

3579
02:29:06,261 --> 02:29:04,141
that

3580
02:29:07,821 --> 02:29:06,271
exist just because I don't encounter

3581
02:29:09,770 --> 02:29:07,831
them in my everyday life most people

3582
02:29:11,270 --> 02:29:09,780
probably don't that doesn't to my mind

3583
02:29:12,951 --> 02:29:11,280
that doesn't really have any necessary

3584
02:29:14,751 --> 02:29:12,961
implication right yeah you personally

3585
02:29:18,861 --> 02:29:14,761
seen of course but that's one thing that

3586
02:29:22,461 --> 02:29:18,871
I would suggest when you do go out on

3587
02:29:26,241 --> 02:29:22,471
Bigfoot research projects that maybe you

3588
02:29:29,600 --> 02:29:26,251
ask outdoorsmen ask you know people who

3589
02:29:32,211 --> 02:29:29,610
are very very knowledgeable about the

3590
02:29:35,661 --> 02:29:32,221
outdoors and you'll be surprised at how

3591
02:29:39,321 --> 02:29:35,671
few if any have ever seen carcasses of

3592
02:29:42,560 --> 02:29:39,331
animals especially predators um they're

3593
02:29:45,801 --> 02:29:42,570
pretty rare and I'm not saying that this

3594
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:45,811
is an argument supporting the existence

3595
02:29:50,241 --> 02:29:48,450
of these crypto creatures but it is

3596
02:29:52,371 --> 02:29:50,251
something that I think that we need to

3597
02:29:53,751 --> 02:29:52,381
always bear in mind that physical

3598
02:29:55,850 --> 02:29:53,761
evidence out in the woods tends to

3599
02:29:58,491 --> 02:29:55,860
disappear very quickly because there's a

3600
02:30:01,551 --> 02:29:58,501
lot of hungry animals out there spread

3601
02:30:02,751 --> 02:30:01,561
the bones around and whatnot so but what

3602
02:30:05,270 --> 02:30:02,761
do you think about the orangutan deck

3603
02:30:08,060 --> 02:30:05,280
for instance in the work that's being

3604
02:30:09,980 --> 02:30:08,070
done trying to establish once and for

3605
02:30:13,551 --> 02:30:09,990
all whether this particular mystery

3606
02:30:15,980 --> 02:30:13,561
primate exists I think probably all the

3607
02:30:18,140 --> 02:30:15,990
places in the world that might hold a

3608
02:30:20,301 --> 02:30:18,150
mystery primate primate probably the

3609
02:30:23,091 --> 02:30:20,311
around pen deck is among the more

3610
02:30:25,611 --> 02:30:23,101
plausible just partly because of its

3611
02:30:27,051 --> 02:30:25,621
remoteness partly because of the fossil

3612
02:30:29,781 --> 02:30:27,061
record out there I don't necessarily

3613
02:30:31,850 --> 02:30:29,791
believe or disbelieve I mean I'm open to

3614
02:30:34,430 --> 02:30:31,860
the evidence either way but I think for

3615
02:30:36,201 --> 02:30:34,440
example there's there's far or there's a

3616
02:30:37,761 --> 02:30:36,211
far far higher and better chance of

3617
02:30:38,690 --> 02:30:37,771
finding the round pen deck than a

3618
02:30:42,381 --> 02:30:38,700
Finding Bigfoot

3619
02:30:44,871 --> 02:30:42,391
just for for any number of reasons okay

3620
02:30:47,060 --> 02:30:44,881
well what's next on your your research

3621
02:30:49,461 --> 02:30:47,070
calendar what what projects are you

3622
02:30:52,281 --> 02:30:49,471
currently gearing up for or are you

3623
02:30:54,190 --> 02:30:52,291
involved in a new project yeah I got a

3624
02:30:56,751 --> 02:30:54,200
handful of things right now there's a

3625
02:30:59,241 --> 02:30:56,761
I'm involved in they actually a

3626
02:31:00,381 --> 02:30:59,251
plagiarism investigation when I was sort

3627
02:31:02,121 --> 02:31:00,391
of a spinoff of my chupacabra

3628
02:31:05,241 --> 02:31:02,131
investigation I was doing some research

3629
02:31:07,071 --> 02:31:05,251
and I found that that that most of this

3630
02:31:08,150 --> 02:31:07,081
particular book was plagiarized so I've

3631
02:31:09,890 --> 02:31:08,160
been I've been dealing with

3632
02:31:13,251 --> 02:31:09,900
HarperCollins to let them know about

3633
02:31:14,751 --> 02:31:13,261
that I'll be giving a talk let me stop

3634
02:31:17,540 --> 02:31:14,761
you right there can you tell us which

3635
02:31:19,130 --> 02:31:17,550
book I I cannot it's no it's not

3636
02:31:20,780 --> 02:31:19,140
I'm waiting for a response back from

3637
02:31:22,429 --> 02:31:20,790
HarperCollins but it's a it's a book

3638
02:31:25,730 --> 02:31:22,439
about vampires it's an encyclopedia

3639
02:31:27,740 --> 02:31:25,740
about vampires okay and they lifted

3640
02:31:28,969 --> 02:31:27,750
material from you I'm sure you know I

3641
02:31:32,510 --> 02:31:28,979
wish they had because they would have

3642
02:31:34,969 --> 02:31:32,520
gotten it right the they they lifted

3643
02:31:36,980 --> 02:31:34,979
material from they just basically did a

3644
02:31:40,340 --> 02:31:36,990
Google search and from what I can tell

3645
02:31:42,860 --> 02:31:40,350
well over half of her book is is taken

3646
02:31:46,639 --> 02:31:42,870
directly from from Google okay so they

3647
02:31:49,219 --> 02:31:46,649
didn't even write it no there was a

3648
02:31:51,889 --> 02:31:49,229
little bit of paraphrasing much of it

3649
02:31:53,540 --> 02:31:51,899
was verbatim and and frankly if this is

3650
02:31:55,849 --> 02:31:53,550
a surprising because you know it

3651
02:31:57,500 --> 02:31:55,859
certainly in my research you know

3652
02:31:59,750 --> 02:31:57,510
chupacabras and Bigfoot's and ghosts

3653
02:32:01,490 --> 02:31:59,760
there's a whole lot and you guys know

3654
02:32:03,770 --> 02:32:01,500
this as well there was a way to much

3655
02:32:05,179 --> 02:32:03,780
just literally copying from other people

3656
02:32:08,750 --> 02:32:05,189
and plagiarism instead of you know

3657
02:32:10,219 --> 02:32:08,760
original investigation but so there's

3658
02:32:11,599 --> 02:32:10,229
that I'm working on I'll be giving a

3659
02:32:14,360 --> 02:32:11,609
talk for the American folklore society

3660
02:32:16,670 --> 02:32:14,370
later this year on the folklore of the

3661
02:32:19,750 --> 02:32:16,680
chupacabra and there's a handful of

3662
02:32:22,070 --> 02:32:19,760
other things that just just miracles

3663
02:32:23,480 --> 02:32:22,080
I've been doing a little piece on some

3664
02:32:24,950 --> 02:32:23,490
crystal skulls which is something that

3665
02:32:27,500 --> 02:32:24,960
Kris knows something about as well oh

3666
02:32:29,300 --> 02:32:27,510
yeah okay so let me ask you about the

3667
02:32:30,800 --> 02:32:29,310
Crystal Skull thing before we let you go

3668
02:32:32,870 --> 02:32:30,810
what are you finding out about the

3669
02:32:35,270 --> 02:32:32,880
crystal skulls anything weird probably

3670
02:32:37,010 --> 02:32:35,280
not because we don't expect you to find

3671
02:32:40,070 --> 02:32:37,020
anything weird do we I would love to

3672
02:32:41,510 --> 02:32:40,080
find something weird let me show you

3673
02:32:44,889 --> 02:32:41,520
what I look like then you'll see weird

3674
02:32:51,860 --> 02:32:44,899
go ahead please oh my god is that you

3675
02:32:58,210 --> 02:32:51,870
did have to be in color oh man that's

3676
02:33:00,770 --> 02:32:58,220
why I do radio you know no I mean it's

3677
02:33:03,559 --> 02:33:00,780
there's all sorts of basically I mean

3678
02:33:04,790 --> 02:33:03,569
again probably Chris's is very with this

3679
02:33:07,429 --> 02:33:04,800
as well but I get back to the

3680
02:33:09,559 --> 02:33:07,439
mitchell-hedges skull and then there's

3681
02:33:10,940 --> 02:33:09,569
the San Luis Valley skull that that the

3682
02:33:13,700 --> 02:33:10,950
Chris wrote about in his book a

3683
02:33:17,840 --> 02:33:13,710
mysterious valley so it's long to myself

3684
02:33:18,800 --> 02:33:17,850
you better hasten to add yes there you

3685
02:33:21,650 --> 02:33:18,810
go there you go

3686
02:33:23,360 --> 02:33:21,660
so yeah you know part of the thing is

3687
02:33:24,950 --> 02:33:23,370
because of what I do there are so many

3688
02:33:26,840 --> 02:33:24,960
irons in the fire there's different

3689
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:26,850
vestigation --zz I'm also working on a

3690
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:28,090
master's program

3691
02:33:33,960 --> 02:33:31,210
I do a podcast called monster talk with

3692
02:33:36,780 --> 02:33:33,970
Blake Smith and Karen stoles now and all

3693
02:33:39,599 --> 02:33:36,790
my other stuff so it's the super cop is

3694
02:33:41,849 --> 02:33:39,609
only the latest of my my my stuff so

3695
02:33:43,860 --> 02:33:41,859
hopefully people will look at it with an

3696
02:33:45,690 --> 02:33:43,870
open mind and decide for themselves well

3697
02:33:47,700 --> 02:33:45,700
that's one thing that I want to applaud

3698
02:33:50,880 --> 02:33:47,710
you on is your open-minded healthy

3699
02:33:53,520 --> 02:33:50,890
skepticism I think some of the debunkers

3700
02:33:55,679 --> 02:33:53,530
in the world should be sitting up and

3701
02:33:58,349 --> 02:33:55,689
taking notice of your approach it's been

3702
02:34:02,280 --> 02:33:58,359
a pleasure having somebody who's

3703
02:34:03,870 --> 02:34:02,290
grounded and objective and him in not

3704
02:34:05,340 --> 02:34:03,880
totally throwing the baby out with the

3705
02:34:07,139 --> 02:34:05,350
bathwater but but looking at the

3706
02:34:09,780 --> 02:34:07,149
evidence I think dispassionately and in

3707
02:34:11,550 --> 02:34:09,790
really having fun while doing it it's

3708
02:34:13,260 --> 02:34:11,560
been a real pleasure speaking with you

3709
02:34:15,150 --> 02:34:13,270
and bam we we really would like to have

3710
02:34:16,650 --> 02:34:15,160
you back on the show I think you're

3711
02:34:18,840 --> 02:34:16,660
you're one of our better guests that

3712
02:34:21,540 --> 02:34:18,850
we've had and I really do applaud your

3713
02:34:23,760 --> 02:34:21,550
work and I agree with quite a bit of

3714
02:34:25,679 --> 02:34:23,770
what if not most of what you came up

3715
02:34:27,900 --> 02:34:25,689
with in this book I was very impressed

3716
02:34:29,219 --> 02:34:27,910
with it I must say and all you true

3717
02:34:32,700 --> 02:34:29,229
believers out there and now have

3718
02:34:37,830 --> 02:34:32,710
something to throw mud at well now you

3719
02:34:39,000 --> 02:34:37,840
can go hate all of us because I yeah I'm

3720
02:34:41,040 --> 02:34:39,010
right we're gonna get hit from both

3721
02:34:42,960 --> 02:34:41,050
sides here but I think you've done a lot

3722
02:34:45,389 --> 02:34:42,970
of good research and whether or not

3723
02:34:47,969 --> 02:34:45,399
ladies and gentlemen you agree if there

3724
02:34:51,179 --> 02:34:47,979
are paranormal events or not paranormal

3725
02:34:53,849 --> 02:34:51,189
events it's important to read all sites

3726
02:34:56,219 --> 02:34:53,859
the skeptic the believer look of the

3727
02:34:58,770 --> 02:34:56,229
evidence realize that not everything is

3728
02:35:00,540 --> 02:34:58,780
a UFO not everything is a strange

3729
02:35:02,370 --> 02:35:00,550
creature from outer space another

3730
02:35:04,560 --> 02:35:02,380
dimension or anywhere else maybe we have

3731
02:35:06,150 --> 02:35:04,570
those things okay because that's what

3732
02:35:08,010 --> 02:35:06,160
the purpose of the show is to find that

3733
02:35:10,760 --> 02:35:08,020
signal to see where it's happening but

3734
02:35:13,860 --> 02:35:10,770
all that noise around us all the crazy

3735
02:35:15,389 --> 02:35:13,870
controversies over for example why we

3736
02:35:16,860 --> 02:35:15,399
allow one message and not another

3737
02:35:19,320 --> 02:35:16,870
message in our form that's a big issue

3738
02:35:20,580 --> 02:35:19,330
by the way on line right now they they

3739
02:35:22,290 --> 02:35:20,590
care about our forms they're very

3740
02:35:24,330 --> 02:35:22,300
important our forms are the most

3741
02:35:27,349 --> 02:35:24,340
important forums on the planet you know

3742
02:35:29,700 --> 02:35:27,359
we have the Japanese earthquake we have

3743
02:35:31,800 --> 02:35:29,710
budgetary problems in America all over

3744
02:35:33,870 --> 02:35:31,810
the world we have recessions we have

3745
02:35:35,370 --> 02:35:33,880
people losing their homes all these

3746
02:35:37,349 --> 02:35:35,380
problems are trying to understand

3747
02:35:39,360 --> 02:35:37,359
strange things are happening out there

3748
02:35:41,230 --> 02:35:39,370
we can't explain what they are

3749
02:35:43,450 --> 02:35:41,240
some things are convention

3750
02:35:45,730 --> 02:35:43,460
some things we don't think so but the

3751
02:35:48,070 --> 02:35:45,740
most important thing is our message

3752
02:35:50,140 --> 02:35:48,080
boards outweigh everything the most

3753
02:35:51,640 --> 02:35:50,150
important things on the planet if that

3754
02:35:54,070 --> 02:35:51,650
sounds ridiculous to you it sounds

3755
02:35:55,900 --> 02:35:54,080
ridiculous to me to Benjamin Radford

3756
02:35:58,051 --> 02:35:55,910
you're not ridiculous tell us where we

3757
02:36:00,190 --> 02:35:58,061
can find more of the things that you do

3758
02:36:02,051 --> 02:36:00,200
well thank you for not calling me

3759
02:36:03,310 --> 02:36:02,061
ridiculous that's that's actually one of

3760
02:36:06,970 --> 02:36:03,320
the better compliments I've gotten this

3761
02:36:09,881 --> 02:36:06,980
week people can find information on me

3762
02:36:12,790 --> 02:36:09,891
at Radford books calm that's our ad F or

3763
02:36:14,551 --> 02:36:12,800
D books calm I've written I guess you're

3764
02:36:16,990 --> 02:36:14,561
tracking the chupacabras my fifth book

3765
02:36:18,910 --> 02:36:17,000
my previous book being scientific

3766
02:36:21,490 --> 02:36:18,920
terminal investigation and they can also

3767
02:36:23,890 --> 02:36:21,500
find stuff at chupacabra mystery calm

3768
02:36:25,511 --> 02:36:23,900
and again I'm in Scott remove our

3769
02:36:28,591 --> 02:36:25,521
magazine I do columns for Discovery News

3770
02:36:31,240 --> 02:36:28,601
and life science and I do the

3771
02:36:33,131 --> 02:36:31,250
approximately monthly podcast monster

3772
02:36:34,631 --> 02:36:33,141
talk so and I'm here there and

3773
02:36:36,790 --> 02:36:34,641
everywhere and I'm doing my best to

3774
02:36:38,890 --> 02:36:36,800
spread some skepticism and critical

3775
02:36:41,890 --> 02:36:38,900
thinking F Chris of course has our

3776
02:36:43,660 --> 02:36:41,900
strange planet calm which we host with

3777
02:36:46,750 --> 02:36:43,670
my own web server so that's why it's

3778
02:36:48,430 --> 02:36:46,760
much faster than it ever was like Chris

3779
02:36:50,350 --> 02:36:48,440
we had a great time with Ben Benjamin

3780
02:36:52,390 --> 02:36:50,360
Radford thank you for joining us this

3781
02:37:02,080 --> 02:36:52,400
week on the power cast thank you has

3782
02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:04,640
Paris is calculated presentation of

3783
02:37:10,040 --> 02:37:07,050
making the impossible incorporated tune

3784
02:37:11,080 --> 02:37:10,050
in next week for a new adventure in the

3785
02:37:18,349 --> 02:37:11,090
para cast